YOU EAT REAL CHICKENS? ARE YOU INSANE??

[IttyBiddyRedHen]

Oh what a touchy hot topic to stick your toe in to. I am also leaning towards learning caponization. Talk about firing squad fodder. I myself always seem to be on the wrong end of the firing squad.

I am very new to chicken raising. My DH was raised country, and wanted to raise chickens. Back in 2011. My family is totally city, and never even had pet birds. 2 poodles yes. Cats. Sure.
Chickens? Ours were either recipes or housed at the local zoo. No ...seriously!!

So, anyhoo....... 2.5 yrs in.....I have only recently done the culling/processing by myself. We jointly did the first few....as I had not a clue. At least he had done it before. I have gotten to the point of being able to make the fatal cut...but am still not good nor totally comfortable with it. It is a major learning curve for me.

I come to BYC to learn from other peoples experiences. Good and bad. I mostly stay out of the conversations. I have gotten myself on the wrong end a few times. Taught me to keep my mouth shut for the most part. Listen and learn.

Why is it some people feel threatened by others experiences and opinions?

 

[Triple Willow]

And I think ( and then I'll be off the soap box) the "I can't believe you eat real chickens" bit comes from people trusting the USDA and FDA more than they trust common people. People are so removed that they don't even know the science behind any of it anymore, which is a darn shame. They trust eggs and meat sprayed with bleach instead of meat that hasn't been contaminated by fecal bacteria in the first place.

I have hope, though. The small farm and "local food" movements are strong in rural areas, and the rise of whole foods and trader Joel's chains (however similar they are to the other chain store models) indicate to me that people are at least trying to be more aware and concerned, however dissillusioned the might still be.

Yep. That common sense movement hasn't made it very far where I am yet.

 

[Triple Willow]

Oh what a touchy hot topic to stick your toe in to.  I am also leaning towards learning caponization.  Talk about firing squad fodder.  I myself always seem to be on the wrong end of the firing squad.

I am very new to chicken raising.  My DH was raised country, and wanted to raise chickens.  Back in 2011.    My family is totally city, and never even had pet birds.  2 poodles yes.  Cats. Sure.
Chickens?  Ours were either recipes or housed at the local zoo.  No ...seriously!!  

So, anyhoo....... 2.5 yrs in.....I have only recently done the culling/processing by myself.  We jointly did the first few....as I had not a clue.  At least he had done it before.  I have gotten to the point of being able to make the fatal cut...but am still not good nor totally comfortable with it.    It is a major learning curve for me.  

I come to BYC to learn from other peoples experiences.  Good and bad.  I mostly stay out of the conversations.  I have gotten myself on the wrong end a few times.  Taught me to keep my mouth shut for the most part.  Listen and learn. 

Why is it some people feel threatened by others experiences and opinions?  

I don't think I will ever be comfortable killing chickens, but I do it. Killing something is a lot easier when you can do it at a good distance like when hunting. Up close and personal, it is more personal.

I am thinking about trying to do some capons. I'm a little bit chicken but it sounds like it works out good production-wise.

Don't stay out of the conversations. Sounds like you have much to offer and your opinion is just as valuable as anybody elses. You just have to expect a dufus around every corner. Most of the time they are not worth fighting with, just wastes your time.

 

[Triple Willow]

I agree, and I don't have to wonder; I know. My husband worked as a sanitarian for several years, and the Department of Health saves millions of lives. If you look at the historical records, millions died from drinking unpasteurized milk, improperly home-canned goods, contaminated water, unsanitary conditions in food factories and restaurants, etc.

It's amazing what the Health Department finds even in 2013; salads being prepared and stored in the alley behind the restaurant next to the garbage cans, raw meat being stored above (and dripping onto) the green onions, rat droppings on the dessert cart, etc. And they not only take care of the restaurant checks, they respond to complaints about hoarders (and the attendant rats), make sure poor children get their vaccinations, give people advice about how to have a healthy pregnancy, and more. THEN, if we have a true health emergency in this country, it's the Health Department that would be in charge of getting people the medication they need. When we had the H1N1 scare, I was pregnant (so a priority) and was impressed with how well our local Health Department handled the tens of thousands lining up for the vaccine.

It's easy to resent a government agency telling you what to do, but there's something to be said for a group with specialized knowledge. Just this fall I was at a farm stand and said something about the guidelines for canning pumpkin changing--they did some research and found it's not safe to home-can pureed pumpkin, only chunks (and even then, you have to pressure-can the chunks). The older lady running the stand said something like "these government types poking their noses into our business! Nobody ever died from home-canned things. Food was safer in our grandparents' time." And I just had to stare--that statement was incredibly ignorant. My grandmother lost two siblings who ate botulism-tainted home canned items during the Depression, and she used to talk about cans exploding in the basement, a sure sign of contamination and spoiled food. I put up hundreds of quarts of different foods each year, and have yet to have a tainted or exploding canning jar. I can't take all the credit for this; a lot of credit goes to those nosy government agencies and them telling me how to do things (right) instead of minding their own business, lol!

The Health Department has its good points but me and mine will pass on most of their vaccines! I stayed home from school by choice when the Health Department nurse came to school. LOL

 

[Bossroo]

Have you head of the Third World Countries and of their health and food supply problems ? JFK started the "Peace Corps "over 50 years ago ... and we sent thousands of people and Billions of $$$s to aid and educate the poor . What did we get in return ? Some of these aid workers brought back the backward practices back home in the form of the " All Natural " or "Organic " movement. Now that is progress !

 

[Beekissed]

Food safety is a bigger concern than people think. Now, many of us here have been taught the proper ways to home processing and preservation. But there are a lot of avenues for contamination. Lets say you let let the manure compost well enough before it's applied to the garden. THEN when you make jam (or sauce or whatever) you don't check the ph of the product before you water bath or pressure can. THEN (if the product needs to be cooked) product isn't heated to the proper temperature when prepared for a meal. If the birds (or whatever the meat source) isn't chilled properly at the appropriate times, or held at cold storage at the right temps, then left on the counter to thaw for 8 hours, then cooked rare... We could easily apply this to the macaroni salad left out in the summer heat or the shrimp cocktail left on the platter for hours at the Christmas party.

Now, I'm no germophobe. I believe the immune system also needs practice, and make sure I have a decent amount of healthy good bacteria in my system. Im not a compulsive hand washer unless it involves cooking. But if someone who has an immature or compromised immune system (young child, the elderly, or chemo patient, etc) they could become so ill they could be hospitalized and even die. Before good food handling came into practice and before vaccines, a LOT of people were effected. It's why we have the department of health. Have they gone too far with some things? Without a doubt. But their jobs are very important and integral to the type of society we have today. I wonder how many more people would become sick if they weren't around.

That's a lot of "THEN"s.

I've got news for you on that one....no one in the country cares a flip about how long manure composts and will place it raw right on the garden when they feel like it, no one checks the pH of the product????? What in the world??????, and no one chills the meats or checks the appropriate cold storage temps, or heats the product to the proper temps before a meal. The only cooking thermometer I've ever seen any of these old folks own is the one nailed to the porch or tree out back or a candy thermometer they use to make rock candy.

All of that is the funniest bunch of stuff I've ever heard in my life and my ancestors would be scratching their heads and wondering what the city folk were chawin' about. We have no dramatic stories of anyone dying of botulism nor have we ever heard of anyone that died of botulism from home canned or home processed foods. Guess we just had common sense instead of thermometers, chillers, pH test strips. Heck, most of us didn't even have refrigeration, electricity, running water! Low acid foods and meats were canned in water bath canners because there were no fancy pressure canners and meat didn't chill in water or a freezer...it hung in the tree until you could work on it.

Sorry...but all those precautions are are mostly likely for those who probably would have been naturally selected by their efforts to preserve food in the first place and now results in a generation who questions people who kill their own foods.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

The Health Department has its good points but me and mine will pass on most of their vaccines! I stayed home from school by choice when the Health Department nurse came to school. LOL

BYC is absolutely, completely, and totally the wrong place to get into this discussion and I have no intention of getting into this with you. What you are doing is wrong and puts us all at risk, and that's an incredibly selfish thing to do--and then to jauntily laugh it off with "LOL" is the icing on the cake. Ugh.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

That's a lot of "THEN"s.

I've got news for you on that one....no one in the country cares a flip about how long manure composts and will place it raw right on the garden when they feel like it, no one checks the pH of the product????? What in the world??????, and no one chills the meats or checks the appropriate cold storage temps, or heats the product to the proper temps before a meal. The only cooking thermometer I've ever seen any of these old folks own is the one nailed to the porch or tree out back or a candy thermometer they use to make rock candy.

All of that is the funniest bunch of stuff I've ever heard in my life and my ancestors would be scratching their heads and wondering what the city folk were chawin' about. We have no dramatic stories of anyone dying of botulism nor have we ever heard of anyone that died of botulism from home canned or home processed foods. Guess we just had common sense instead of thermometers, chillers, pH test strips. Heck, most of us didn't even have refrigeration, electricity, running water! Low acid foods and meats were canned in water bath canners because there were no fancy pressure canners and meat didn't chill in water or a freezer...it hung in the tree until you could work on it.

Sorry...but all those precautions are are mostly likely for those who probably would have been naturally selected by their efforts to preserve food in the first place and now results in a generation who questions people who kill their own foods.

Some of the deadliest outbreaks in recent years have been from organic vegetables from exactly all those "thens" above. Farm workers in many countries simply relieve themselves in the fields. Manure is not always composted. Meat hangs unrefrigerated and covered in flies in open air markets all over the world. Your ancestors did all these things. You may not have heard any stories, but the numbers are there. Good grief, I don't know anyone that has brain cancer, but that doesn't stop me from believing that brain cancer exists. Just because you personally haven't witnessed botulism doesn't mean it can't happen to you. Why do you think people had such large families? It's because of high infant and child mortality, and poorly prepared food was a large part of that. People have been keeping cause of death databases for hundreds of years at this point. The numbers are there. The records are there. During your "common sense" period, people died a lot, and they died young. Don't confuse luck for skill.

 

[Baymule]

Oh what a touchy hot topic to stick your toe in to. I am also leaning towards learning caponization. Talk about firing squad fodder. I myself always seem to be on the wrong end of the firing squad.

I am very new to chicken raising. My DH was raised country, and wanted to raise chickens. Back in 2011. My family is totally city, and never even had pet birds. 2 poodles yes. Cats. Sure.
Chickens? Ours were either recipes or housed at the local zoo. No ...seriously!!

So, anyhoo....... 2.5 yrs in.....I have only recently done the culling/processing by myself. We jointly did the first few....as I had not a clue. At least he had done it before. I have gotten to the point of being able to make the fatal cut...but am still not good nor totally comfortable with it. It is a major learning curve for me.

I come to BYC to learn from other peoples experiences. Good and bad. I mostly stay out of the conversations. I have gotten myself on the wrong end a few times. Taught me to keep my mouth shut for the most part. Listen and learn.

Why is it some people feel threatened by others experiences and opinions?

I applaud you and others like you who have put their city ways aside long enough to do the deed. Yes it is hard. I have hunted deer and squirrels, then butchered and processed what I shot. I have processed many wild game animals and the experience has been priceless. I raised rabbits long ago and after I got over the "cuteness" and was over loaded with bunnies, yep, I butchered them. Same with quail and pheasants. Now it's chickens. Is it hard to butcher an animal that has been eating out of your hand? You bet'cher boots it is. Hats off to all of you who struggle with this.

What helps me is a simple prayer thanking God and thanking the animal for giving up it's life to sustain mine and my families lives. Pagan?--pray to the Earth Mother. Atheist?--try a simple Thank You to the animal itself. Just the act of giving gratitude will go a long way toward making you feel better about it.

 

[Beekissed]

Some of the deadliest outbreaks in recent years have been from organic vegetables from exactly all those "thens" above. Farm workers in many countries simply relieve themselves in the fields. Manure is not always composted. Meat hangs unrefrigerated and covered in flies in open air markets all over the world. Your ancestors did all these things. You may not have heard any stories, but the numbers are there. Good grief, I don't know anyone that has brain cancer, but that doesn't stop me from believing that brain cancer exists. Just because you personally haven't witnessed botulism doesn't mean it can't happen to you. Why do you think people had such large families? It's because of high infant and child mortality, and poorly prepared food was a large part of that. People have been keeping cause of death databases for hundreds of years at this point. The numbers are there. The records are there. During your "common sense" period, people died a lot, and they died young. Don't confuse luck for skill.

Luck is happenstance and I don't believe in it. Skill is preserving foods for generations without having any such incidence. They had large families to help share the work, not to have extras in case they died! They also had large families because there was not the available birth control.

I'm the youngest of nine, my mother and father were both from equally large families and their families before them. Not because they had to breed to replace dead youngin's!

Believe all the propaganda you want, those people all over the world who do not have all these USDA rules of food preservation have a much higher population than the US and it's not because they had extras to fill the required "quota of kids" when one would die. It's because the most hardy and savvy are able to survive long enough to produce more of the same.

During that common sense period people died. Guess what..in every period of Earth people have died. They are still dying. That does not prove they died from poorly preserved foods!