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De-worming and Wazine Concern

post #1 of 89
Thread Starter 

I have five hens and have recently learned that one or perhaps all (?) have some kind of worm.  It is a long skinny white worm that at first glance looked like a noodle or something...maybe round worm?  We obtained the hens in April of this year from a farm when they were between 8 -12 months of age.  Worms have not been noticed until about 2 weeks ago.  From the feed store I picked up some "Wazine 17" wormer.  I had read somewhere on the forum here that it was a recommended wormer.  After getting it home I realized that it notes on the bottle, "Do not use in chickens producing eggs for human consumption."  (luckily I read the whole label)

My family eats my hens eggs every day - I have not purchased eggs since we got them.  What do I do in this circumstance?  I do have DE.  I have used it primarily in their nests and have not really used it in their food...though I now have a good helping sprinkled in the food.  Will that even do anything?  The hens free range within my back yard and I have organic layer feed out for them, plus they get super meal worms on an almost daily basis.  Any suggestions?


Edited by Chicken-Jay - 7/18/09 at 1:28pm
post #2 of 89

Here is a link to a natural product that someone posted on my thread.
http://www.verm-xusa.com

post #3 of 89
Thread Starter 

Thank you!

post #4 of 89

My question is, Why can we use it on feed hogs (per the instructions) but not egg laying hens?  You eat the meat of the hog just  like you eat an egg.

I prefer an ugly truth to a pretty lie. If someone is telling me the truth that is when i will give my heart. ~ Jack Nicholson 

Look! A ladder!! Maybe it leads to heaven, or a sandwich... 

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I prefer an ugly truth to a pretty lie. If someone is telling me the truth that is when i will give my heart. ~ Jack Nicholson 

Look! A ladder!! Maybe it leads to heaven, or a sandwich... 

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post #5 of 89

Honestly, natural wormers aren't proven to kill infestations of worms.  The sties don't claim that they will kill an infestation of roundworms in poultry.  Not an infestation.  Read carefully. 

I would say just worm them and get it done with.  The worms you're seeing are likely capillary or round worms, the most common worms of the barn yard.  You don't want to eat the eggs from wormy chickens as worms CAN go in the eggs.  I'd rather throw away 2 weeks worth and THEN do natural products than take that risk with my family.

They say that on the label for legal reasons.  They also say to withdraw for 14 days.  That's the period in which you won't eat the eggs.

DE is also not a wormer.  it's what you use in between twice a year wormings (best done during molt do you don't have to worry about throwing away eggs) to help possibly keep numbers down.  but if you depend upon it as a wormer, it will fail you.

I've been recommending DE to people for over 10 years.  When I started to recommend it, I was laughed at and told it's not a good product.  It's a brilliant product (and only use food grade by the way    never ever use garden DE).  But it's brilliant for what it's good, and not that for which it is not good.

I'd hate to see such a great product be misused and then possibly written off as non effective.  Use it between wormings in the feed (2% of weight) and in the dust bath areas.  Try cayenne, or vermx.  BUt when your birds have enough worms to shed them - use a wormer.

By the way, wazine must be followed up.  I perfer to start with wazine, then 2 weeks or a month later (or during the next molt) use ivermectin.  Then I just use ivermectin 2 x's a year and natural stuff in between.

Chickens very very rarely shed worms.  If they do, all your birds have them.  Worms attach to the inside of the digestive tract.  Not only do they create nutritional deficiencies, but every place that they burrow scars the gut.  Every scar is a place where nutrition won't absorb.  And breaking the gut liner also opens up the possibility that undigested food can cross into the blood which causes lots of problems.  Worms should be effectively dealt with and kept away.

A lot of people recommend worming more.  I prefer the more natural method of control methods like DE inbetween, but giving a REAL wormer twice a year to kill larvae (which DE will never in a million years kill).  The larvae of roundworms sit in the lungs (often causing respiratory symptoms) and eventually will become adults.  DE doesn't fix the respiratory ones.  So why leave the worms in there?  VermX also doesn't do anything for any worm that isn't in the gut.

I've been recommending my same method of worming for 10 years and have practiced it for 12.  I use it on my own birds, who are my dear pets.


Edited by threehorses - 7/18/09 at 10:58pm
Nathalie Ross  threehorses@horsemail.com
(http://hoovesandfeathers.homestead.com/index.html in progress)
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Nathalie Ross  threehorses@horsemail.com
(http://hoovesandfeathers.homestead.com/index.html in progress)
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post #6 of 89

How do you use ivermectin? What product/dose/method of application?

post #7 of 89

I went to the feed store today, and was told there is no longer a deworming medicine for poultry. What are the instructions, ie medicine and dosage to worm the chickens twice yearly?
Thanks!

RIP my son, Michael Bonham, Jr. 1972-2013

A son, brother, friend, wrestler, father, Army Airborne Ranger, wrestling coach, and so much more....

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RIP my son, Michael Bonham, Jr. 1972-2013

A son, brother, friend, wrestler, father, Army Airborne Ranger, wrestling coach, and so much more....

A memorial video with some of his (too short) life HERE.

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post #8 of 89
Thread Starter 

Thank you Threehorses - great information and exactly the advice I was seeking.

post #9 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathyinmo 

I went to the feed store today, and was told there is no longer a deworming medicine for poultry. What are the instructions, ie medicine and dosage to worm the chickens twice yearly?
Thanks!


I rarely believe anything the feed stores say anymore, seriously.  For every one feed store guy that I've met that knows anything about poultry, I've met 100 that know nothing but act like they know everything.  It would be almost amusing if I didn't know that they're out there giving seriously harmful advice to people who just want to have healthy birds.

There are plenty of dewormers for poultry.  Labeled for poultry, and those not labeled but generally accepted and recommended by universities, much less the ones that are used privately.

So ignore The Feed Store Guy.  smile

For your twice yearly program, here's my recommendation.  It's what I've been using personally for over 10 years, more like 12.

I'm going to probably repeat myself here, but want to have all the information in one place.


OK first I determine whether or not a bird needs the wazine worming first, what I nicknamed the "wazine pre-worming".  Here are the qualifications.   If "yes" to any of these, I do the wazine first:

Bird is over six months old, never wormed, and has been on dirt -  not wire.
Bird has an unknown worming history.
Bird has shed any worms in the feces at all.
Bird hasn't been wormed in over 9 months.


If the bird meets those qualifications, I use Wazine 17 (or equivalent piperazine 17%) as labeled in their water for 1 day.  I don't eat eggs for two weeks.  I *like* to do this when the bird is molting/not laying if possible, but worm killing > egg eating.
If you do the "wazine pre-worming", then in 2 or more weeks later (no more than 2 months) I will do the following worming which I do to all birds twice a year - fall and spring.

I gather the birds being wormed into one area where they don't usually live.  Each bird gets picked up and thoroughly examined.  Skin, inside mouth, feathers, breathing, keel score, comb/wattles, vent, etc etc.  I doctor anything that needs doctoring.  Then I worm them (see below) and place them in the pen where they usually stay.  Then i get the next bird, rinse and repeat.  It helps to have a little portable folding table on which to work, a jacket or big men's shirt, and gloves.  Keep a bucket near by with scissors and meds in case you have to clean and treat any little things.

The wormers:
Ivermectin (pour-on, injectable given orally, or paste).  aka Ivomec though  I recommend generic, not "ivomec" brand because it's all "ivermectin".  Horse paste wormers for a 1200 lbs horse labeled as "ivermectin" will work.  I don't use the other -ectins, although I know some use eprinectin (eprinex).  Personally my preference is pour-on, generic.  Broad spectrum, kills more than just intestinal worms, kills adults AND larvae in many species, kills external parasites that take blood, and gapeworm.  High safety margin.  See dosage below.

Fenbendazole aka Safe-Guard. Panacur.  Paste.  Another good broad spectrum wormer with a high safety margin.  Kills roundworms (adults), cecal worms, capillary worms, and gape worms.  You can make a bb-sized piece of it and put into the beak.  MSU says that you can use as follows:
-----http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html-------

    1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed

Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole.
------------------

Levamisole:  Kills capillary worms, cecal worms, roundworms (adults).
Dosage at: http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html

-------------------
IVERMECTIN:

Personally
, I use pour-on ivermectin for cattle.  It's a blue solution.  250ml generic costs about $14 and will last you ages!  It's best to have a helper, but can be done on your own with a table.  You will want to fill a syringe with a needle with a little ivomec.  I use a 3cc syringe and 25g needle.  You will NOT inject it - I use the needle to make one drop at a time of a uniform sized drop.  (I'm not able to do that with a regular dropper while holding a chicken.)  I hold the syringe pointing towards its side, not down at the bird, in case she jumps so I don't poke her. 

I find a spot on the bird, about 1/2" wide, that has no feathering and no down.  The best area is low on the back of the neck, or between the shoulders.  Once I find that spot, I dispense 1 to 8 drops on the skin.  If you get it on the down, it absorbs and you don't know whether or not the bird will get it - so make sure it's on the skin.

The dosage is as follows:

1 drop for a small or OEGB sized bantam.
2 drops for a large OEGB, small but not "micro" bantam.
3 drops for a regular bantam hen.
4 drops for an average hen or smaller large fowl rooster.
5 drops for the average large fowl
6 drops for a larger large fowl
7 drops for giant breed

Here's a post on ivermectin that explains using injectable, etc:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=185989

Nathalie Ross  threehorses@horsemail.com
(http://hoovesandfeathers.homestead.com/index.html in progress)
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Nathalie Ross  threehorses@horsemail.com
(http://hoovesandfeathers.homestead.com/index.html in progress)
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post #10 of 89

And is 2 weeks the necessary time period to not eat the eggs?

I confess....I am addicted to chicks!
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I confess....I am addicted to chicks!
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