De-worming and Wazine Concern

[Chicken-Jay]

I have five hens and have recently learned that one or perhaps all (?) have some kind of worm. It is a long skinny white worm that at first glance looked like a noodle or something...maybe round worm? We obtained the hens in April of this year from a farm when they were between 8 -12 months of age. Worms have not been noticed until about 2 weeks ago. From the feed store I picked up some "Wazine 17" wormer. I had read somewhere on the forum here that it was a recommended wormer. After getting it home I realized that it notes on the bottle, "Do not use in chickens producing eggs for human consumption." (luckily I read the whole label)

My family eats my hens eggs every day - I have not purchased eggs since we got them. What do I do in this circumstance? I do have DE. I have used it primarily in their nests and have not really used it in their food...though I now have a good helping sprinkled in the food. Will that even do anything? The hens free range within my back yard and I have organic layer feed out for them, plus they get super meal worms on an almost daily basis. Any suggestions?

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
I rarely believe anything the feed stores say anymore, seriously. For every one feed store guy that I've met that knows anything about poultry, I've met 100 that know nothing but act like they know everything. It would be almost amusing if I didn't know that they're out there giving seriously harmful advice to people who just want to have healthy birds.

There are plenty of dewormers for poultry. Labeled for poultry, and those not labeled but generally accepted and recommended by universities, much less the ones that are used privately.

So ignore The Feed Store Guy.

For your twice yearly program, here's my recommendation. It's what I've been using personally for over 10 years, more like 12.

I'm going to probably repeat myself here, but want to have all the information in one place.


OK first I determine whether or not a bird needs the wazine worming first, what I nicknamed the "wazine pre-worming". Here are the qualifications. If "yes" to any of these, I do the wazine first:

Bird is over six months old, never wormed, and has been on dirt - not wire.
Bird has an unknown worming history.
Bird has shed any worms in the feces at all.
Bird hasn't been wormed in over 9 months.


If the bird meets those qualifications, I use Wazine 17 (or equivalent piperazine 17%) as labeled in their water for 1 day. I don't eat eggs for two weeks. I *like* to do this when the bird is molting/not laying if possible, but worm killing > egg eating.
If you do the "wazine pre-worming", then in 2 or more weeks later (no more than 2 months) I will do the following worming which I do to all birds twice a year - fall and spring.

I gather the birds being wormed into one area where they don't usually live. Each bird gets picked up and thoroughly examined. Skin, inside mouth, feathers, breathing, keel score, comb/wattles, vent, etc etc. I doctor anything that needs doctoring. Then I worm them (see below) and place them in the pen where they usually stay. Then i get the next bird, rinse and repeat. It helps to have a little portable folding table on which to work, a jacket or big men's shirt, and gloves. Keep a bucket near by with scissors and meds in case you have to clean and treat any little things.

The wormers:
Ivermectin (pour-on, injectable given orally, or paste). aka Ivomec though I recommend generic, not "ivomec" brand because it's all "ivermectin". Horse paste wormers for a 1200 lbs horse labeled as "ivermectin" will work. I don't use the other -ectins, although I know some use eprinectin (eprinex). Personally my preference is pour-on, generic. Broad spectrum, kills more than just intestinal worms, kills adults AND larvae in many species, kills external parasites that take blood, and gapeworm. High safety margin. See dosage below.

Fenbendazole aka Safe-Guard. Panacur. Paste. Another good broad spectrum wormer with a high safety margin. Kills roundworms (adults), cecal worms, capillary worms, and gape worms. You can make a bb-sized piece of it and put into the beak. MSU says that you can use as follows:
-----http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html-------

1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed

Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole.
------------------

Levamisole: Kills capillary worms, cecal worms, roundworms (adults).
Dosage at: http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html

-------------------
IVERMECTIN:

Personally, I use pour-on ivermectin for cattle. It's a blue solution. 250ml generic costs about $14 and will last you ages! It's best to have a helper, but can be done on your own with a table. You will want to fill a syringe with a needle with a little ivomec. I use a 3cc syringe and 25g needle. You will NOT inject it - I use the needle to make one drop at a time of a uniform sized drop. (I'm not able to do that with a regular dropper while holding a chicken.) I hold the syringe pointing towards its side, not down at the bird, in case she jumps so I don't poke her.

I find a spot on the bird, about 1/2" wide, that has no feathering and no down. The best area is low on the back of the neck, or between the shoulders. Once I find that spot, I dispense 1 to 8 drops on the skin. If you get it on the down, it absorbs and you don't know whether or not the bird will get it - so make sure it's on the skin.

The dosage is as follows:

1 drop for a small or OEGB sized bantam.
2 drops for a large OEGB, small but not "micro" bantam.
3 drops for a regular bantam hen.
4 drops for an average hen or smaller large fowl rooster.
5 drops for the average large fowl
6 drops for a larger large fowl
7 drops for giant breed

Here's a post on ivermectin that explains using injectable, etc:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=185989

 

[threehorses]

Honestly, natural wormers aren't proven to kill infestations of worms. The sties don't claim that they will kill an infestation of roundworms in poultry. Not an infestation. Read carefully.

I would say just worm them and get it done with. The worms you're seeing are likely capillary or round worms, the most common worms of the barn yard. You don't want to eat the eggs from wormy chickens as worms CAN go in the eggs. I'd rather throw away 2 weeks worth and THEN do natural products than take that risk with my family.

They say that on the label for legal reasons. They also say to withdraw for 14 days. That's the period in which you won't eat the eggs.

DE is also not a wormer. it's what you use in between twice a year wormings (best done during molt do you don't have to worry about throwing away eggs) to help possibly keep numbers down. but if you depend upon it as a wormer, it will fail you.

I've been recommending DE to people for over 10 years. When I started to recommend it, I was laughed at and told it's not a good product. It's a brilliant product (and only use food grade by the way never ever use garden DE). But it's brilliant for what it's good, and not that for which it is not good.

I'd hate to see such a great product be misused and then possibly written off as non effective. Use it between wormings in the feed (2% of weight) and in the dust bath areas. Try cayenne, or vermx. BUt when your birds have enough worms to shed them - use a wormer.

By the way, wazine must be followed up. I perfer to start with wazine, then 2 weeks or a month later (or during the next molt) use ivermectin. Then I just use ivermectin 2 x's a year and natural stuff in between.

Chickens very very rarely shed worms. If they do, all your birds have them. Worms attach to the inside of the digestive tract. Not only do they create nutritional deficiencies, but every place that they burrow scars the gut. Every scar is a place where nutrition won't absorb. And breaking the gut liner also opens up the possibility that undigested food can cross into the blood which causes lots of problems. Worms should be effectively dealt with and kept away.

A lot of people recommend worming more. I prefer the more natural method of control methods like DE inbetween, but giving a REAL wormer twice a year to kill larvae (which DE will never in a million years kill). The larvae of roundworms sit in the lungs (often causing respiratory symptoms) and eventually will become adults. DE doesn't fix the respiratory ones. So why leave the worms in there? VermX also doesn't do anything for any worm that isn't in the gut.

I've been recommending my same method of worming for 10 years and have practiced it for 12. I use it on my own birds, who are my dear pets.

 

[dawg53]

I use pumpkin to worm my chickens, it works great and doesn't affect the eggs. You can use fresh or canned pumpkin.

You'll learn eventually that pumpkins will not treat worms.

 

[dawg53]

valbazen is given orally. as Pine Grove stated, it'll get rid of everything including 3 types of tapeworms. it will not get rid of lice/mites, ivermectin pour on will do that. valbazen should be used as part of a regular treatment cycle,whether it's semi annually or annually,it's just depends how you wish to do it. i treat my chickens first with wazine,then either one of three wormers in rotation; ivermectin pour on,safeguard (fenbendazole), valbazen. i always use wazine first. i do this about every 8 or 9 months. here in southeast georgia due to our soil being constantly swampy and damp with high humidity,it's condusive for worm soup. dosage for valbazen is as follows: one half cc (one half ml) for a standard breed chicken. one quarter cc (one quarter ml) for smaller chickens,like bantams etc...you can put it on the side of their beak and hope they drink it or you can do what i did. get a small piece of bread and put it on the piece of bread and give a piece to each chicken. a little time consuming but each chicken scoffs their piece of bread right up lol. there's a 2 week withdrawal period and throw the eggs in the garbage.

 

[casportpony]

Here is a thread I started on worming orally:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/745210/how-to-safely-worm-your-peafowl-orally

 

[Michael Apple]

I just discovered round worms in my broody hens poop. She hatched her chicks last Thursday so they aren't yet a week old. I'm not sure what is the best way to treat Her. I normally put DE in my flocks food but the broody is eating the chick starter and she doesn't seem to be eating very much at all. Should I put the DE in the chick starter or go right for the Wazine in their water. I don't even know if the wazine is safe for chicks? Has anyone had experience with this? P.S. My broody looks awful and this is my first hatch and hers. Do all Brody's get to lookin raggedy?

DE won't remove intestinal worms from your hen. Wazine states dosages for birds starting at 4 weeks, so I'm not sure it should be used with chicks less than that age. Dose the hen orally with Valbazen suspension at .08 cc per pound (.50 cc is fine for a 5 lb hen). Dose orally with a syringe that has no needle. I'd just keep the area cleaned up daily for the chicks until they are past 4 weeks, keep a close eye during that time, then treat their water with Wazine if you suspect worms.

 

[casportpony]

Quote: Cecal poops are normal, just not as frequent. Mine usually do them twice a day.

"Food is taken in at the mouth, travels to the crop with some saliva where it is stored. Small amounts of food are passed to the proventriculus (acid-producing stomach) and then to the gizzard where it is ground up by already-eaten grit. Food then passes in to the small intestine for digestion. The two blind-ended parts of the gut, the caeca, are where a certain amount of fermentation of herbage takes place. The contents of the caeca are expelled about one in ten to normal droppings (about twice daily) and are a different colour and consistency. The paired kidneys produce solid waste matter called urates, deposited with normal droppings."

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Piperazine

There is one study looking at piperazine residues in the eggs of treated hens. Piperazine is approved for use in laying hens in Australia and Canada at doses ranging from 130 to 200mg/kg/body weight one time and a zero day egg and meat withdrawal. In the US, since there is no tolerance, this withdrawal needs to be extended.

Source:http://www.usfarad.org/drug-wdi-faqs.html

 

[dawg53]

Hello! I know this post is old but I'm hoping to get some help. I have 5 six week old chicks and I'm pretty sure they have worms but how should I dose them? Thanks!

Give each chick 1/2cc Valbazen orally, use a syringe without needle to administer it and repeat in 10 days.