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Sheep People-Advice Please! - Page 10

post #91 of 117

Nathan - I just picked up 26 bales of T&A - come and get whatever you need!  Text me.

One Norwegian Fjord,  4 British Shorthair cats, One darling husband............and getting ready to start a new life in N.C. mountains (summer 2014 when youngest graduates from high school).

 

..............and (drum roll)...........one brand new Papillon puppy who joined us in November!!

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One Norwegian Fjord,  4 British Shorthair cats, One darling husband............and getting ready to start a new life in N.C. mountains (summer 2014 when youngest graduates from high school).

 

..............and (drum roll)...........one brand new Papillon puppy who joined us in November!!

Reply
post #92 of 117
Thread Starter 

You are the BEST!!!  I had said I wouldn't get them but I might stop by and get one now I think about it, I think it's more nutritious.  So if you notice one missing, it was me wink

Thanks Again,
Nathan

Breeder of mille fleur d'uccles.

Also have a small flock of hair sheep.

And 5 peafowl

Love my animals friends!

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Breeder of mille fleur d'uccles.

Also have a small flock of hair sheep.

And 5 peafowl

Love my animals friends!

Reply
post #93 of 117

That's just fine - and why I left them there for you!!  There are several flakes for you sitting on the chair - just inside the gate.   :-)

One Norwegian Fjord,  4 British Shorthair cats, One darling husband............and getting ready to start a new life in N.C. mountains (summer 2014 when youngest graduates from high school).

 

..............and (drum roll)...........one brand new Papillon puppy who joined us in November!!

Reply

One Norwegian Fjord,  4 British Shorthair cats, One darling husband............and getting ready to start a new life in N.C. mountains (summer 2014 when youngest graduates from high school).

 

..............and (drum roll)...........one brand new Papillon puppy who joined us in November!!

Reply
post #94 of 117

wee So glad she is back on her feet!

   I type using a bigger font size because my new glasses suck and I can't read anything small with them.

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   I type using a bigger font size because my new glasses suck and I can't read anything small with them.

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post #95 of 117
Thread Starter 

Interesting about toxic plants I found that is very surprising to me.

Red Maple

Red maple can cause a blood disorder that leaves an animal sick for an extended period. Like cherry, wilted leaves are the most toxic.

Okay, I have 3 red maple trees in their field and they got up on their hind legs months ago and stripped all the leaves they could, never got sick (that was before I got M)

Cherry, Black

All parts are extremely toxic, but wilted leaves are the most. The tree contains cyanide, and all animals are susceptible, especially ruminants. Symptoms included staggering or convulsions within fifteen to thirty minutes of ingestion; death within one hour.

Cannot believe it.  That was the FIRST thing M ate on Friday, she started taking leaves off my black cherry trees.

I got this directly from UF's website and am shocked.  Wouldn't sheep and other grazers have an instinct not to eat something that is poisonous? 
http://solutionsforyourlife.ufl.edu/hot_topics/agriculture/toxic_plants.html

I cannot keep her from the black cherry trees or the toxic milkweed plants in my backyard, not at this point.  I hope she sticks to the hay and pellets for now.  She is finally eating dry pellets this morning...another step to recovery.

Breeder of mille fleur d'uccles.

Also have a small flock of hair sheep.

And 5 peafowl

Love my animals friends!

Reply

Breeder of mille fleur d'uccles.

Also have a small flock of hair sheep.

And 5 peafowl

Love my animals friends!

Reply
post #96 of 117

Eating is a very good sign.  BTW, animals rarely eat toxic plants if they have good food available.  An exception is an animal that gets addicted to Jimpsom Weed. And plants may be toxic under some conditions and not others.

The obscure we understand eventually. 
The obvious takes a little longer.
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The obscure we understand eventually. 
The obvious takes a little longer.
Reply
post #97 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by boykin2010 

I would try me best to contact a breeder of any type of sheep near you and get that experienced person to come by and look


I would not worm while she is sick., it's an added stressor. Can you get some trimethoprim SMZ? Might be better for GI stuff. Also, electrolytes with fiber or add some metamucil, which I know seems weird but she needs some fiber in her gut/rumin. Probiotics are very important, too. You can get them at the feed store or add live culture yogurt, organic ACV or best would be kefir.
Good luck, sheep are great animals. I miss my little flock of polypays.

OEGBs, Three Egyptian Fayoumis, Two Silver Leghorns, 2 Sicilian Buttercups, 2 Golden Penciled Hamburgs, EEs,production reds, Cornish Xs and red broilers,a Doberman, a teenaged chihuahua and a papillon, one TB gelding (rescue), and my matriarch Paint mare with her daughter and son (gelding), plus one wonderful husband who puts up with me
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OEGBs, Three Egyptian Fayoumis, Two Silver Leghorns, 2 Sicilian Buttercups, 2 Golden Penciled Hamburgs, EEs,production reds, Cornish Xs and red broilers,a Doberman, a teenaged chihuahua and a papillon, one TB gelding (rescue), and my matriarch Paint mare with her daughter and son (gelding), plus one wonderful husband who puts up with me
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post #98 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassie 

Just for the record, any thermometer will do.  Also, you can do a fecal yourself.  Just collect some fresh poo and put it in a clean jar and take it in.  The white eyelids are a sign of severe anemia.  Anemia is usually caused by internal parasites. Your sheep is in very serious condition.  By the way, a severe parasite infection will kill the appetite.


Anemia can also be caused by sepsis from severe bacterial or viral infection. I'd wait on loading up with more toxic wormer until a fecal is done. Wormer is an added stress, plus, if the wormload is terrible, a total worm die off can kill the animal, too.

OEGBs, Three Egyptian Fayoumis, Two Silver Leghorns, 2 Sicilian Buttercups, 2 Golden Penciled Hamburgs, EEs,production reds, Cornish Xs and red broilers,a Doberman, a teenaged chihuahua and a papillon, one TB gelding (rescue), and my matriarch Paint mare with her daughter and son (gelding), plus one wonderful husband who puts up with me
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OEGBs, Three Egyptian Fayoumis, Two Silver Leghorns, 2 Sicilian Buttercups, 2 Golden Penciled Hamburgs, EEs,production reds, Cornish Xs and red broilers,a Doberman, a teenaged chihuahua and a papillon, one TB gelding (rescue), and my matriarch Paint mare with her daughter and son (gelding), plus one wonderful husband who puts up with me
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post #99 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathhowe 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzGypsy 

you will want to look for a vet with more experience in sheep... in SoCal where I lived there were only 3 vets within 60 miles (out of dozens and dozens) that would even treat sheep... those three are excellent, but it can be tough to find what you need. 
hopefully this vet will go and educate themselves more about sheep.  the good ones will do that so they're more prepared the next time.

you can also look for a local breeder, someone with lots of experience.  many breeders are quite experienced and are willing to help teach you.  my last vet knew cattle well, but not so much on sheep, said I knew as much as he did, but over the time we worked on my sheep together he continued to educate himself, and we both learned.

did you get B vitamins?  that's something I didn't see on your list.  I'd call your vet back and ask about dosage and get some syringes.  sometimes you can get the b vitamins at a feed supply store.  I give it subQ, not IM, and it does sting so you may need someone to help you.  very sick sheep won't fight it, but as they start to feel a little better, sometimes they do.

getting them restarted after a crisis is a problematic issue and the combination of banamine and b vitamins, with drench and water by syringe to keep them from crashing, has pulled through several sheep I thought would not make it.

good luck.


Thank you.  I will call about the B Vitamins.  He was very short on knowledge and didn't seem to LIKE animals like a vet should, didn't talk to her or call her by name like I would expect.  Wasn't too old, probably straight out of vet school.  I think one of those had B Vitamins in it.  I do know the name of a vet WITH experience that I will use next time.


Ohh, I hate vets like that! I kicked a vet off my farm one time. A cattle vet that tried to stick a needle in a horse's gut, as if it was a cow. He then proceeded to tell the owner she was dying and she was wasting her money, in a very rude manner.

OEGBs, Three Egyptian Fayoumis, Two Silver Leghorns, 2 Sicilian Buttercups, 2 Golden Penciled Hamburgs, EEs,production reds, Cornish Xs and red broilers,a Doberman, a teenaged chihuahua and a papillon, one TB gelding (rescue), and my matriarch Paint mare with her daughter and son (gelding), plus one wonderful husband who puts up with me
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OEGBs, Three Egyptian Fayoumis, Two Silver Leghorns, 2 Sicilian Buttercups, 2 Golden Penciled Hamburgs, EEs,production reds, Cornish Xs and red broilers,a Doberman, a teenaged chihuahua and a papillon, one TB gelding (rescue), and my matriarch Paint mare with her daughter and son (gelding), plus one wonderful husband who puts up with me
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post #100 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzGypsy 

if she's a pet, and seeks petting and ear scratching or a rub under her chin, then I think doing that is just fine.  if she's not used to being handled, or gets nervous, jumpy or wary when she's handled, I'd let her be... you'll feel better, but it will add to her stress.

on the b vitamins, I'll just say that I've got 3 experienced sheep vets who say it works.  I've had success with using it to restart sheep after major surgery and major illnesses... sheep we really did not expect to make it.  two different vets commented that they stopped telling me to expect a sheep we were treating might die - because I usually was able to save them.

Pay Dr. Sara's farm call... get your second opinion.  this vet already told you that he doesn't know much about sheep, and your instincts are telling you you're not comfortable with him, so I'd trust that.

what did this vet say about the additional banamine shots?

did he talk to you about keeping her hydrated / continuing the sheepdrench / etc.?  if he didn't, I think he's not done everything he should in terms of educating you and giving you your best shot at saving her.

did he tell you when to have the next fecal done?  the only way to know if this wormer worked is to do a follow up fecal test.  otherwise, it's just guessing.

I'd be very intersted in what Dr. Sara says about "plugging the holes"... we've never had a critical anemia so I havn't had to address it, but I always want to learn...

probios are a good idea, they will certainly help once her gut heals and she starts to eat, but they do take a while to build up, so they won't help with the current crisis.

re: not worming: worm load is not caused by having wormed in the past, and sheep certainly can come to the state your ewe is in because they've not been wormed when they need it.  the right thing to do here is get a fecal done on all your sheep - you don't want to find out too late that there are others in your flock that need worming.  if their fecal count is low, you'll know you're doing the right thing with them by not worming.  if it's not low enough, you'll know that your current methods aren't working and you need to act to prevent more crisis anemia treatment and the posibility of losing them.  I'm not a fan of worming just on general purposes - it contributes to resistant worms and does nothing good for the sheep if they don't need it.  but given that you've already got a crisis on your hands, it's important to find out if it's just this one sheep, or if she's just the first one to crash. 

your girl has a sweet face, and I'm particularly fond of black sheep, about a third of mine are black...

on giving up, yes, sheep do that.  that's part of why I think the b vitamins and banamine are important... she's got to eat and drink and if she's miserable and weak, she may not have the fight in her to get it done.  if her buddy lamb hangs with her, that's a help, sheep feel more secure if they're not alone. 

did you try offering her the pepto bisomol?  peppermint flavor works with my sheep when all else fails.  pepto flavored bran mash with soaked alfalfa pellets would help if she'll eat it.  the sunflower leaves are good if she'll eat them.

as I said before, worming with the right drug will fix the cause, but you've still got to get her through the next few weeks while she recovers - hydration and calories are what's going to do that.  and the more comfortable she feels, the less likely she is to quit trying.

one more thing to ask Dr. Sara about is Redcell.  personally I haven't noticed that it helps when building horses up from anemia, but I've got a goat breeder friend who swears it does, and I recently heard a vet say so in a lecture ... the caution would be I don't know 1) if it works and 2) if it's safe for sheep.  at any rate, you can ask about it, I'd be interested in what Dr. Sara has to say about it.

so, there you know what I'd be doing... second opinion with the other vet, then hydrate, drench, coax with tasty treats, b vitamin shots, banamine shots, keep in the company of other sheep if they're gentle and friendly with her.  and getting fecals on everybody (barbadose are more worm resistant, but not worm-proof.)

BTW, even my best vets don't remember most of my animals's names... not even during the visit... they see a lot of animals.  but most of them remember which animal when I describe them over the phone this way "the white sheep with the black eyeliner... the one we treated for an abscess on her shoulder... " wink

good luck!


I have had red cell work in a severely ill filly who was anemic due to a chronic bacterial infection in her gut.
I've had some calves and a puppy get severely anemic due to viruses. They puppy had parvovirus,which destroys red blood cells, and required multiple transfusions. The calves had multiple infections, I got them from a dairy and stools tested + for resistant e.coli, resistant salmonella, resistant staph and rotavirus. Probiotics, b-vitamins, electrolytes, Metamucil and subcutaneous fluids saved all of them. I also gave them red cell once they were nursing.

OEGBs, Three Egyptian Fayoumis, Two Silver Leghorns, 2 Sicilian Buttercups, 2 Golden Penciled Hamburgs, EEs,production reds, Cornish Xs and red broilers,a Doberman, a teenaged chihuahua and a papillon, one TB gelding (rescue), and my matriarch Paint mare with her daughter and son (gelding), plus one wonderful husband who puts up with me
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OEGBs, Three Egyptian Fayoumis, Two Silver Leghorns, 2 Sicilian Buttercups, 2 Golden Penciled Hamburgs, EEs,production reds, Cornish Xs and red broilers,a Doberman, a teenaged chihuahua and a papillon, one TB gelding (rescue), and my matriarch Paint mare with her daughter and son (gelding), plus one wonderful husband who puts up with me
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