Fermenting feed for layers?

chisandchicks said:

how do you do your fodder?

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Hi Chris, It's called fermented feed and is so easy to do. Here's a site that has all the facts on what you need. She does it like I do. A dry crumbly oatmeal

http://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

My birds started laying about 2 weeks ago but will really start when my new ones come along. The new birds are adjusting well to FF and are doing great. The eggs taste really good.

I mixed a very small bucket of feed to ferment......but I didn't think about the chlorine in my water.....will it be ok or should I start over? I actually ferment kefir water myself and I can't believe I forgot about the yucky stuff they add to our water.

I've discussed this on the big FF thread. Several people there say they have chlorine in their water, didn't do anything different and it still worked. Chlorine will gas off in 24 hours. However, most municipal water supplies use chloramine instead of chlorine. Chloramine is an ammonia chlorine bond that is very stable and must be broken before it can gas off.
I had a conversation with the chemists at a company that makes probiotics for chickens and they said the chloramine would probably be detrimental to the bacteria. When I make fermented feed or use the probiotics in the water, I use tap water conditioner for aquariums in the water before I mix it.
They also told me that people that consume chloramine water should probably constantly replace their gut bacteria.

This is what I use.
http://www.apifishcare.com/product.php?id=655
It's one drop per gallon for chlorine and three drops per gallon for chloramine.
Any pet store should have that or a similar product. Just make sure it only breaks down chloramine and doesn't add other things to the water like a fin treatment.

weaversfarm said:

Wow, this is a lot for someone who has never done it to digest. I have a bottle of Heinz ACV. Says it is all natural with 5% acidity. Do I have to make the Mother before I ferment the feed or will the fermentation of the feed develop the Mother? I have no stores in my area that sells the Bragg vinegar with the Mother. I do want to try this because of the benefits it has not only for the chickens, but for the pocketbook as well. Could someone please enlighten me on the vinegar and Mother part of this?

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I read an article Thursday night that said you shouldn't use apple cider vinegar because it ferments into alcohol. It said you should use live culture buttermilk instead to avoid liver and kidney troubles.

earlyredrooster said:

I read an article Thursday night that said you shouldn't use apple cider vinegar because it ferments into alcohol. It said you should use live culture buttermilk instead to avoid liver and kidney troubles.

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The bacteria in ACV converts alcohol into acetic acid (vinegar), not the other way around. Alcohol can cause liver issues, but not vinegar.

The reason people use ACV (or any vinegar) is to lower the pH of a new batch of ff. It doesn't have to have "the mother" or any thing like that, even white vinegar will work.

The reason that people use buttermilk is to both lower the pH and add a few more beneficial lactic acid bacteria.

But neither is required. But lowering the pH will speed up, slightly, the fermentation process of a new batch. And increase your chances of it turning out right..,a handy tool if you've never fermented before.

You could also add a few cabbage leaves, if you have some around, to add some lactic acid bacteria. It will help speed it up...but again, not necessary.

This assumes you are using non chlorinated water. If you have chlorinated water, call your municipal water supply to find out if its chlorine or chloramine. The former can be off gassed, as ChickenCanoe said, the latter needs other methods. Sounds like some folks do okay with it. There's a chance it might work just fine but it's also increasing your chances of it going bad. Or you can try adding starters like buttermilk or salt less kraut juice or several cabbage leaves...but I haven't experience with chlorinated water.

pdirt said:

The bacteria in ACV converts alcohol into acetic acid (vinegar), not the other way around. Alcohol can cause liver issues, but not vinegar.

The reason people use ACV (or any vinegar) is to lower the pH of a new batch of ff. It doesn't have to have "the mother" or any thing like that, even white vinegar will work.

The reason that people use buttermilk is to both lower the pH and add a few more beneficial lactic acid bacteria.

But neither is required. But lowering the pH will speed up, slightly, the fermentation process of a new batch. And increase your chances of it turning out right..,a handy tool if you've never fermented before.

You could also add a few cabbage leaves, if you have some around, to add some lactic acid bacteria. It will help speed it up...but again, not necessary.

This assumes you are using non chlorinated water. If you have chlorinated water, call your municipal water supply to find out if its chlorine or chloramine. The former can be off gassed, as ChickenCanoe said, the latter needs other methods. Sounds like some folks do okay with it. There's a chance it might work just fine but it's also increasing your chances of it going bad. Or you can try adding starters like buttermilk or salt less kraut juice or several cabbage leaves...but I haven't experience with chlorinated water.

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Thanks a lot. I have already decided to get distilled water because ours is so hard. Since it is harvest time here my main ingredients will be raw rice, corn and soybeans that we glean behind the combines and grain buggies. We have collected over 600 lbs in the last two evenings, and should have about 3000 lbs total by the end of harvest this I figured to mix and then ferment along with their layer pellets and scraps. Mixed will be 10% grains, about 7% scraps and the rest layer pellets.

Would adding ACV to an already active lactic FF add anything of any value, or is it likely to kill it off?

It has only been three days but I gave them a scoop this morning and they loved it. It doesn't really smell fermented....it is outside and the weather turned cool.....I may move it inside for a day or two. I know my kefir water ferments slower if it is cooler.

Roxannemc said:

Starting some fermented feed Read an article on a study of  layers and fermented  but wonder about the additonal shell thickness.I lntend on hatching .Worried the shells might be too  thick to allow hatch as some are thick now .Anyone feed ferment and hatch too?   

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Haven't seen this question answered& was kinda wondering the same thing? Anybody got an answer?