Niacin supplements?

Does anyone a natural way to naturally supplement niacin in a ducklings diet? Is a niacin supplement necessary?

Croysdon said:

Does anyone a natural way to naturally supplement niacin in a ducklings diet? Is a niacin supplement necessary?

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Niacin is indeed necessary, but their feed should already contain it. Some people supplement them with peas, which are high in vit B3 (Niacin). Leafy greens in general are also sources of vit B3.

Niacin is necessary for liver, feathers, eyes, brain, etc; it helps metabolize carbohydrates, fats and proteins and is involved in making hormones. Fishmeal would also be high in niacin, most legumes are too, comfrey also if I recall correctly.

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Best wishes.

chooks4life said:

Niacin is indeed necessary, but their feed should already contain it. Some people supplement them with peas, which are high in vit B3 (Niacin). Leafy greens in general are also sources of vit B3.

Niacin is necessary for liver, feathers, eyes, brain, etc; it helps metabolize carbohydrates, fats and proteins and is involved in making hormones. Fishmeal would also be high in niacin, most legumes are too, comfrey also if I recall correctly.


Best wishes.

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Good response from chooks4life. Wanted to add, it seems from numerous posts on BYC Duck Forum, that there are a large number of ducklings with niacin needs that are higher than what they are getting out of their feed. And I cannot say 100% for sure why. Maybe it's an uptake problem that is genetic, or environmental. Maybe it is that feeds are getting reformulated. I have read that crops nowadays may have much lower levels of nutrients due to soil depletion.

In any case, adding some brewer's yeast - and that contains a wider variety of vitamins than a straight niacin supplement - or niacin capsules emptied into their drinking water (perhaps a more precise way of delivering the niacin) seems to help in so many situations I think it is a fine practice.

And chooks4life, I think you may have misremembered the pea vitamins, or have a different source of information. I had always read they have a good amount of C, and webmd cites B1 and B6 but not B3. Sheesh, all these B's.

The reasons ducks often need suplimental niacin is that much of the nicotinic acid in feeds is not available, it would be with treatment with alkaline solutions, but that is rarely done. Also, ducks have much higher levels of picolinic acid in their liver. That causes tryptophan to the energy conversion rather than to niacin. As a result, chickens have a tryptophan:niacin efficiency of about 50:1, while ducks are about 170:1.

Clint

So, Clint, is the alkaline solution treatment something that a humble backyard duck keeper might be able to manage? Or would it need to be done just to the niacin-containing elements of the feed prior to mixing?

Thanks for this clarification and detail. Very valuable.

Prior, the alkaline solution treatment would make some other nutrients unavailable...part of the reason it is rarely done.

Clint

Got it. Thanks. Very useful information.

By the way, do you know if drinking water that is slightly alkaline could interfere with calcium uptake? Our water here is about 7.2, and I have two to three ducks at the most from time to time who have thin shelled eggs, sometimes without shells. Per vet instructions I am supplementing with 23% calcium gluconate and that appears to work. I realize it could be that the brand of feed I am using may be a little on the low side - it is a poultry layer feed, not specifically for waterfowl.

(apologize for the hijack)

Amiga, I really can't see a problem normal arterial pH is about 7.5. Yeah, it' on a log scale, but not huge differences. I would be more suspicious of then genetics affecting either Can or P metabolism. There may also be high P in your water that would be affecting the Can ratio.

Clint

Wow, Clint, I woke up yesterday morning thinking about the Ca ratio. Let me poke around and figure out whether we might be out of balance and in which direction. Thank you!

I need to dig out the most recent water analysis. I know I had a detailed one done a few years ago, those numbers are not likely to change...

Amiga said:

Good response from chooks4life. Wanted to add, it seems from numerous posts on BYC Duck Forum, that there are a large number of ducklings with niacin needs that are higher than what they are getting out of their feed. And I cannot say 100% for sure why. Maybe it's an uptake problem that is genetic, or environmental. Maybe it is that feeds are getting reformulated. I have read that crops nowadays may have much lower levels of nutrients due to soil depletion.

X2^ I am noticing the same with chickens, what should be a complete feed is leaving people coming to this forum with severe deficiency diseases. I'm still on the fence too about whether it's genetic or environmental but I am suspecting it's based on our depleting soil farming methods, the research suggests we are galloping off a cliff with modern conventional farming.

I think the manufacturers need to be notified that their feeds are no longer sufficient.

And chooks4life, I think you may have misremembered the pea vitamins, or have a different source of information. I had always read they have a good amount of C, and webmd cites B1 and B6 but not B3. Sheesh, all these B's.

Different sources of info, I'd guess, as I researched it recently and that's where I got the 'B3 source is green peas' information.

I am wondering though what sort of green peas they were talking about as there are a few subtly different types. I have a few books on nutrition, all of them by reputable authors with sources and citations coming out of their ears, and none of them agree 100% with one another (or even themselves sometimes, lol!) --- but that's the state of the knowledge in that field right now, still learning and tracing relationships.

I have heard duck owners state they use green peas for niacin too, on this forum. Random thought --- anyone tried pigeon peas on them? They're a legume that's got no known toxicity thresh-hold for livestock use. I intend to sow a patch for my sheep, they love it and will consume a whole 'tree' each per day if I let them. But generally people sow them for chickens and other poultry, they're a very easy to grow, fast growing, nutritious feed.

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Speceider said:

The reasons ducks often need suplimental niacin is that much of the nicotinic acid in feeds is not available, it would be with treatment with alkaline solutions, but that is rarely done. Also, ducks have much higher levels of picolinic acid in their liver. That causes tryptophan to the energy conversion rather than to niacin. As a result, chickens have a tryptophan:niacin efficiency of about 50:1, while ducks are about 170:1.

Clint

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Very interesting, thanks for the info.

I take it you keep ducks? If so, how do you feed them?

Best wishes to all.