2.5 year old drake having balance issues - vet was unsure of what's wrong...any ideas?

[cymbaline]

My Bullwinkle has been gradually developing issues balancing himself over the past 6 months or so. At first, he would just stumble every now and then, and I attributed it to him being fat and not graceful, lol, as he has always been very big for his breed - he's a Mallard but can barely get off the ground. Then in May or June, I noticed he was wobbling a lot more, as shown in this video. He wasn't this bad all the time, I just managed to catch a bit of it on video. You can see near the end he starts to take off walking pretty well.

This one was about two weeks ago, although I wasn't really videoing his balancing problems, but rather what he thought of kale, lol.

And this is him in the shower last weekend. He does much better in the water, obviously. You can still tell that something isn't right with his legs though. And that water was clean before I put him in - that's how dirty he gets sitting around in poo all the time.

He is pretty much unable to stand up straight unless he is leaning his rear on something. Also, because of this, he's now got wet feather on his rear and belly because he can't reach back there to preen.

At first, I tried just putting brewer's yeast in their food, and that didn't seem to make any difference. Then, on the advice of an avian vet cousin of mine in NC, I made sure he got lots of swimming time every day, to give his legs some exercise and to give him a break in case it was a pulled muscle or something. This went on for weeks and didn't seem to help. Last week I gave up and I brought him inside to live in my shower, and after watching him all weekend, called my vet's office on Monday. Of their (at least) four vets on staff, they felt confident that only one was knowledgeable enough about ducks to help, and she wasn't in on Mondays, so on Tuesday, I drove him down there. She examined him, and thought that it was likely neurological (possibly a brain tumor, although the study she referenced was about crested ducks, it turns out), but just in case it wasn't, she gave me Baytril and a steroid in injectable form (5 doses). We are two doses in and no improvement so far.

He was never injured that I'm aware of (I'm very over-protective - they are rarely out of my sight if free-ranging, and in a super-safe pen the rest of the time), and he has no other symptoms that I can tell. The vet didn't mention anything else being wrong with him other than what I already knew about, which are all secondary symptoms: wet feather, some spots on his hocks from sitting on them so much outside, and one of the other boys had poked him in the eye and made it foam up a little (which is a big chunk of why I brought him inside). His appetite is great, and his energy level is fine. He tries to get around and preen himself and be a normal duck. His feather quality/condition only recently started to suffer, and it's not for lack of him trying. He had lost some weight recently, but I think that was because he couldn't get to the food bowl as often as he wanted, because when presented with food, he eats plenty! He is never more than 2 ft from food and water now, so I imagine he will put the weight back on soon. I've been giving him vitamins & electrolytes in his water and brewer's yeast in his food since he's been inside. The only thing the vet didn't check for, and I forgot to ask about, is if he could've eaten something he shouldn't have, but I would think the symptoms would've appeared much more quickly and he would have other issues besides balance...right?

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I really hope someone out there has some good advice for this sweet boy. <3


P.S. If you have no advice on what could be wrong and/or how to help, do you have any ideas how I can keep him clean? He sits around in the poo, but if I put him in the water to clean him off, he stays wet for hours and hours because half of him is no longer waterproof.

P.P.S And yes, he is slow to molt, lol...always has been. I think the other boys' heads will be green again before he gets rid of his green, haha.

 

[cymbaline]

That's too bad, I know I've read on the goose thread of members using veterinary schools and getting discounts but it probably depends on location. Sorry I got your hopes up.

It sounds like he is getting the best care he could get, I have a Muscovy drake that's going on 11 yrs old he can walk but barely so I have to carry him to the front yard where he spends the day with his 3 girls 2 of them are also 10, then in the evening I carry him to bed. He doesn't molt any more so his wings are pretty beat up but he still eats good and seems to enjoy his days with his girls, So lets just enjoy our boys for as long as we can they sure bring a bright spot to our lives don't they.

What do you do with him on the days it's too cold to go out? Right now my pen is a cold muddy mess, which the other ducks LOVE, lol, but since he's no longer waterproof he can't join them. But I feel bad that he's just sitting in a box in my bathroom all day long. I've been trying to think of something to do for him, like maybe plant grass in a tray and dump some worms or something in, so he can pretend he's outside digging and hunting for bugs. I don't know, maybe that's silly, lol. If he didn't get soaked so easily I'd leave him in a tub to swim and float and splash, like I used to do when I had other (healthy) indoor ducks, but he gets drenched to the skin and I know he gets cold, poor fella, and he can't get out when he wants like the other ducks could. And he does NOT enjoy the blow-dryer!

 

[cymbaline]

It's sure a mystery, sometimes we just never know but he seems happy so that counts to you as to the great care he is getting. Maybe he injured it at once time and nerves are damaged they are so good at covering up injuries and illnesses that it could have been something minor that just progressed all guesses of course. I never saw Ernie actually injure himself but once when he jumped from the side of the stock tank instead of using the ramp and he limped for well over a week before he got better, I don't know if this has something to do with his not walking well now or not but I wonder if they can get arthritis in places of injuries like us humans. Which maybe whats going on with Bull Winkle too? Watching him shake his foot makes me think nerve. Maybe tingling or something to that effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_neuropathy ?


http://books.google.com/books?id=BL...page&q=Can water fowl have neuropathy&f=false go down to lead poisoning just to confirm that water fowl can get neuropathy. I doubt his if that's what it is is from lead but it could be from some kind of injury, I have fibromyalgia and have neuropathy.
His shaking his foot could be from tingling sensation.

It was definitely something that very slowly got worse over a length of time. He only stumbled sometimes for the first few months, then I started noticing that he would sit frequently, then I hardly ever saw him standing anymore.
I came to pretty much the same conclusion when I saw him tapping his foot - that it was like he was trying to "wake" it up. They didn't notice anything abnormal in his blood work or x-rays though, just inflammation of unknown origin.
You had asked about his leg in the water - I videoed him for a few minutes last night (had to go change clothes afterward because of all his splashing, lol):

I just love how he drinks/bites the water falling. <3
I never did really see him use his right leg though, even when he tipped over a little. I think he's been using his right wing to compensate a lot, in and out of the water, which I hope doesn't cause him more issues...

 

[Miss Lydia]

Ernies girls the 2 white ones were 10 this last July Ruth is going to be 8 next March

Ernie he was 10yrs this past March.

Makes all the difference their attitude, maybe you should run around out in the yard with him so he thinks he's flying

just don't do it if the neighbors are home. Ernie my old drake tries to flap his wings when I pick him up and if I don't support his legs he'll flap his feet like crazy. Ernie just doesn't have any flight feathers anymore because he doesn't molt so when he last lost his wing feathers to fighting they never grew back. I took a pic of him today I'll upload it and post.

 

[Amiga]

Foamy eye can be the beginnings of an eye infection, and like Miss Lydia wrote, head-dunking can ward that off.

Something duck lovers must work with is a mindset that says "livestock" animals, if not treated easily, are to be euthanized. I disagree.

Ducks have a strong will to live, and they know when it is time to go. I feel, from reading your posts, that you and Bullwinkle are still working through this together. It may be difficult, but I feel you and he will benefit if you keep trying at this point. Trust your gut. There is a sadness that comes from saying goodbye when it is time, and there is a sadness that comes from thinking you have to do what someone else tells you that your heart knows is wrong.

That's been my experience.

 

[Miss Lydia]

My Bullwinkle has been gradually developing issues balancing himself over the past 6 months or so. At first, he would just stumble every now and then, and I attributed it to him being fat and not graceful, lol, as he has always been very big for his breed - he's a Mallard but can barely get off the ground. Then in May or June, I noticed he was wobbling a lot more, as shown in this video. He wasn't this bad all the time, I just managed to catch a bit of it on video. You can see near the end he starts to take off walking pretty well.

This one was about two weeks ago, although I wasn't really videoing his balancing problems, but rather what he thought of kale, lol.

And this is him in the shower last weekend. He does much better in the water, obviously. You can still tell that something isn't right with his legs though. And that water was clean before I put him in - that's how dirty he gets sitting around in poo all the time.

He is pretty much unable to stand up straight unless he is leaning his rear on something. Also, because of this, he's now got wet feather on his rear and belly because he can't reach back there to preen.

At first, I tried just putting brewer's yeast in their food, and that didn't seem to make any difference. Then, on the advice of an avian vet cousin of mine in NC, I made sure he got lots of swimming time every day, to give his legs some exercise and to give him a break in case it was a pulled muscle or something. This went on for weeks and didn't seem to help. Last week I gave up and I brought him inside to live in my shower, and after watching him all weekend, called my vet's office on Monday. Of their (at least) four vets on staff, they felt confident that only one was knowledgeable enough about ducks to help, and she wasn't in on Mondays, so on Tuesday, I drove him down there. She examined him, and thought that it was likely neurological (possibly a brain tumor, although the study she referenced was about crested ducks, it turns out), but just in case it wasn't, she gave me Baytril and a steroid in injectable form (5 doses). We are two doses in and no improvement so far.

He was never injured that I'm aware of (I'm very over-protective - they are rarely out of my sight if free-ranging, and in a super-safe pen the rest of the time), and he has no other symptoms that I can tell. The vet didn't mention anything else being wrong with him other than what I already knew about, which are all secondary symptoms: wet feather, some spots on his hocks from sitting on them so much outside, and one of the other boys had poked him in the eye and made it foam up a little (which is a big chunk of why I brought him inside). His appetite is great, and his energy level is fine. He tries to get around and preen himself and be a normal duck. His feather quality/condition only recently started to suffer, and it's not for lack of him trying. He had lost some weight recently, but I think that was because he couldn't get to the food bowl as often as he wanted, because when presented with food, he eats plenty! He is never more than 2 ft from food and water now, so I imagine he will put the weight back on soon. I've been giving him vitamins & electrolytes in his water and brewer's yeast in his food since he's been inside. The only thing the vet didn't check for, and I forgot to ask about, is if he could've eaten something he shouldn't have, but I would think the symptoms would've appeared much more quickly and he would have other issues besides balance...right?

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I really hope someone out there has some good advice for this sweet boy. <3


P.S. If you have no advice on what could be wrong and/or how to help, do you have any ideas how I can keep him clean? He sits around in the poo, but if I put him in the water to clean him off, he stays wet for hours and hours because half of him is no longer waterproof.

P.P.S And yes, he is slow to molt, lol...always has been. I think the other boys' heads will be green again before he gets rid of his green, haha.

It does seem to be neurological but because of what i have no idea. Have you thought about putting some Activated charcoal in his water for a day just to see if it makes any difference.? the charcoal binds to what ever the toxin is and removes it from the body, and what about hardware disease. That one you'd have to read up on, but seems he would be very sick and not eating if that was the case. I don't know honestly but i would try the activated charcoal just because you haven't. He is absolutely adorable that last pic just shows personality shining through. As for wet feather about all you can do there is let him bath and then dry him off in those places he can't reach, i have 2 10yr old ducks that get wet feather every year round this time till molt. Have no idea why.https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/700526/flushes-for-aiding-in-toxin-removal#post_9508213
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...te-falling-weight-loss-lethargy#post_13244769

 

[cymbaline]

It does seem to be neurological but because of what i have no idea. How old is he? Have you thought about putting some Activated charcoal in his water for a day just to see if it makes any difference.? the charcoal binds to what ever the toxin is and removes it from the body, and what about hardware disease. That one you'd have to read up on, but seems he would be very sick and not eating if that was the case. I don't know honestly but i would try the activated charcoal just because you haven't. He is absolutely adorable that last pic just shows personality shining through. As for wet feather about all you can do there is let him bath and then dry him off in those places he can't reach, i have 2 10yr old ducks that get wet feather every year round this time till molt. Have no idea why.

He's not even 2.5 years old (born late March 2012). The charcoal couldn't hurt, could it? If there's not much chance of side effects and there's any chance it could help, I'll try it. I figure the vet would've mentioned if she thought he'd eaten metal or something. Guess I should look into it just in case...
Hardware disease - "Ducks and geese are attracted to shiny things like pennies, screws, nails, staples, coins of any type and other metal objects. They will swallow them. This is extremely dangerous and most often fatal. As it is digested, the metal (and coating on various metals) poisons the bird, harming the kidneys and liver. It can take days and even weeks for any symptoms to become apparent, at which point it is often too late. Early symptoms of hardware disease include a bird that keeps to itself, away from others and eats less. Fecal matter can be flourescent green (though this can also be a sign of other infection). Eventually the bird cannot walk, or walks and falls down. If these symptoms occur, the bird must go to a vet immediately. It must have a xray to see if any foreign objects have be eaten. There is medication that is given to try to get rid of the poisons in the bird, but most often they need to have surgery to remove the objects."

The only symptom of this that he has is the falling down/inability to walk. His poop is normal, depending on what he has eaten of course. His symptoms have taken months to develop to this point, not days or weeks. I never noticed him staying away from other ducks, he just couldn't keep up sometimes, and he definitely eats fine. I wish I had thought to ask the vet to x-ray him just in case, but surely she would have done that if she thought it was a possibility...she raises ducks at home, along with many other critters. I am just stumped.

I guess I'll just keep my routine going then...letting him swim and get cleaned up when I get home in the evening, and then putting him in a box lined with a towel. The towel helps him dry off, and the box helps support him so he can dry himself and preen better. I sit the box on the couch with me and feed him bits - grapes, tomatoes, lettuce, even scrambled (chicken) eggs...he seems really content sitting there with me.

If he doesn't get the wet feather under control before winter though he's gonna be a house-duck for a long time...there's no way I can put him outside like this. He shivers at like 60 degrees when he is wet.

Thanks for the response and advice. Here is one more video of my little sweetheart:

 

[Miss Lydia]

That is so sweet and sure looks to have a good appetite, I really didn't think hardware disease, just thought I'd give you the info anyway. I would try the Activated charcoal and follow the direction to the T only side effect can be constipation if you use it for longer than recommended. He sure is in good hands. My 2 with wet feather usually molt before the temp gets to drastic, but at their ages I do worry about them getting chilled. And since he hasn't been on the meds that long yet hopefully they will kick in and get him over what ever it is too. Be sure to give him a probiotic after the antibiotic to get his gut back in gear.

 

[cymbaline]

That is so sweet and sure looks to have a good appetite, I really didn't think hardware disease, just thought I'd give you the info anyway. I would try the Activated charcoal and follow the direction to the T only side effect can be constipation if you use it for longer than recommended. He sure is in good hands. My 2 with wet feather usually molt before the temp gets to drastic, but at their ages I do worry about them getting chilled. And since he hasn't been on the meds that long yet hopefully they will kick in and get him over what ever it is too. Be sure to give him a probiotic after the antibiotic to get his gut back in gear.

Thanks I appreciate any suggestions at this point, no matter how far-fetched they might seem. I wasn't really sure he didn't have it until I looked it up.
I don't know much about using activated charcoal. I found some online at Amazon, but it's for people. A little bit of Googling tells me about 2 grams would be a suitable dose for a 3lb duck - does that sound right? That's almost 4 capsules, and the dose for people is two capsules 2-3 times daily. About how many days should I dose him? What would you recommend for a probiotic? The same capsules people take?
I don't think a molt will help him, because unless he gets better, he still won't be able to keep himself oiled, and the new feathers will degrade just like these have. :/
Oh, and did I mention I have to give him a shot in the chest every day? Scary!!

 

[Miss Lydia]

I found Activated charcoal at Walmart in the antacid isle I keep on hand for tummy upset and i have had food poisoning and it sure did help with that too. In the link i gave you on flushes it tells how much to give.