A Bielefelder Thread !

[Ron Skekel]

Hi everyone, I haven't been on it a while because I am the one who realized my cock had sprigs and needed to cull so I stopped breeding that trio. I am culling that cock and put the hens in my laying flock for eating eggs. I went in half on a large quantity from green fire farm the newest imports. The person I went in half with found out her health was an issue. So I have the full order. They are five months old no sprigs. They are really good looking birds I'm very happy with them but can't keep them all. So I have a few pairs and a couple extra cocks. I prefer not to ship but if they don't sell in a few months I will I am NPIP. Photos on request. PM me if interested. Pam

 

[Bine]

I would try to make it easier for your young (?) roosters and cut the fluff, b/c young rooster sometimes have problems with holding the balance while finding the right spot. Even my tiny, non-fluff birds have sometimes problems... the hens are in general not that excited to be hopped by a young rooster. If an older, higher ranking rooster is around they sometimes don't cooperate that much, regardless if the older rooster is okay with it or not.
O/c you can reduce the fluff by select breeding.... This is the way the got the fluff in the first place. But I would monitor the meat quality, in some breeds the fluff and the meat quality seem to be connected. I have no first hand experience with that, my birds do not get fat, but personally I think that the way you feed the birds has more to do with the meat than the fluff.
But maybe your Bielefelders are just not willing to take the risk of been beaten up by one of your other roosters.
Temperaments are diffent. I have had roosters that took every risk and didn't mind to loose some feathers, others made sure that the dominat rooster was buisy on the opposite site of the allontment before getting close to a hen.

The problem of the bottleneck effect and inbreeding depression is something most pure breeds (old and new) struggle with in Europe. The number of chicken owners and breeders are plummeting and so are the number of purebred chicken and chicken breeds. But not only chickens are at risk, other livestock and plants too. We loose our diversity to the gen hunters, factory farms and the big agrar cooperation.

GFF imports rare breeds, that means that the gene pool here is very small and out of that small pool they take a relativ small number of birds...to select for the breed typical and not related birds is a difficult task.
On the other hand it is always difficult to breed show quality and without a written standard, not possible.
...and Bielefelders are not Hybrids they are a breed, a breed that is 80 years younger than most of the European breeds, but a breed.
As I said some breeds may have a longer tradition, but the few paintings and written descriptions we have from our chickens are very vage and it could be a coincidence. From a once very common breed of the Tiroler Spitzhaube i.e. we have only one bluerred photo. One hen in the backround of photo that shows a proud farmer and his priced bull ... and a chicken fanciers who looked in every backyard and on every remote farm in Tyrol to find birds like her to bring this breed back to life. Did the original breed have the same genes/qualities like the new revived one?
It is impossible to know that.

 

[Candy442]

In biology a hybrid, also known as cross breed, is the result of mixing, through sexual reproduction, two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species or genera.[1] Using genetic terminology, it may be defined as follows.[2]

1. Hybrid generally refers to any offspring resulting from the breeding of two genetically distinct individuals, which usually will result in a high degree of heterozygosity, though hybrid and heterozygous are not, strictly speaking, synonymous.
2. a genetic hybrid carries two different alleles of the same gene
3. a structural hybrid results from the fusion of gametes that have differing structure in at least one chromosome, as a result of structural abnormalities
4. a numerical hybrid results from the fusion of gametes having different haploid numbers of chromosomes
5. a permanent hybrid is a situation where only the heterozygous genotype occurs, because all homozygous combinations are lethal.

 

[DesertChic]

I've been enjoying this discussion regarding hybridization....especially since my breeding Bielefelder cockerel has taken it upon himself to mate prolifically with my Australorps, Barred Rocks, White Rocks and Silkie. (Okay...seeing his massive 7.5 pound body atop my little 32 oz Silkie actually makes me cringe....but the combination of the two could be cute.)

So....I'm currently in the process of preparing to incubate some NN Turken eggs and figured, "Why not throw in some Bielefelder hybrids? Could result in not only some pretty birds, but some much more heat tolerant birds as well." And since my Biel pullets simply aren't ready for breeding.....Oh, why not?

I'm still looking forward to maintaining pure Bielefelders, but I'm curious to see how the genetics in the crosses play out and determine whether they follow my calculations or not.

 

[Cody A]

I would try to make it easier for your young (?) roosters and cut the fluff, b/c young rooster sometimes have problems with holding the balance while finding the right spot. Even my tiny, non-fluff birds have sometimes problems... the hens are in general not that excited to be hopped by a young rooster. If an older, higher ranking rooster is around they sometimes don't cooperate that much, regardless if the older rooster is okay with it or not.
O/c you can reduce the fluff by select breeding.... This is the way the got the fluff in the first place. But I would monitor the meat quality, in some breeds the fluff and the meat quality seem to be connected. I have no first hand experience with that, my birds do not get fat, but personally I think that the way you feed the birds has more to do with the meat than the fluff.
But maybe your Bielefelders are just not willing to take the risk of been beaten up by one of your other roosters.
Temperaments are diffent. I have had roosters that took every risk and didn't mind to loose some feathers, others made sure that the dominat rooster was buisy on the opposite site of the allontment before getting close to a hen.

The problem of the bottleneck effect and inbreeding depression is something most pure breeds (old and new) struggle with in Europe. The number of chicken owners and breeders are plummeting and so are the number of purebred chicken and chicken breeds. But not only chickens are at risk, other livestock and plants too. We loose our diversity to the gen hunters, factory farms and the big agrar cooperation.

GFF imports rare breeds, that means that the gene pool here is very small and out of that small pool they take a relativ small number of birds...to select for the breed typical and not related birds is a difficult task.
On the other hand it is always difficult to breed show quality and without a written standard, not possible.
...and Bielefelders are not Hybrids they are a breed, a breed that is 80 years younger than most of the European breeds, but a breed.
As I said some breeds may have a longer tradition, but the few paintings and written descriptions we have from our chickens are very vage and it could be a coincidence. From a once very common breed of the Tiroler Spitzhaube i.e. we have only one bluerred photo. One hen in the backround of photo that shows a proud farmer and his priced bull ... and a chicken fanciers who looked in every backyard and on every remote farm in Tyrol to find birds like her to bring this breed back to life. Did the original breed have the same genes/qualities like the new revived one?
It is impossible to know that.

Bine, thank you for clearing this up and clarifying for any other newb that comes along.

 

[Bine]

In biology a hybrid, also known as cross breed, is the result of mixing, through sexual reproduction, two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species or genera.[1] Using genetic terminology, it may be defined as follows.[2]

1. Hybrid generally refers to any offspring resulting from the breeding of two genetically distinct individuals, which usually will result in a high degree of heterozygosity, though hybrid and heterozygous are not, strictly speaking, synonymous.
2. a genetic hybrid carries two different alleles of the same gene
3. a structural hybrid results from the fusion of gametes that have differing structure in at least one chromosome, as a result of structural abnormalities
4. a numerical hybrid results from the fusion of gametes having different haploid numbers of chromosomes
5. a permanent hybrid is a situation where only the heterozygous genotype occurs, because all homozygous combinations are lethal.

That would be a idea, but through the lens of genetics all our breeds are genetic hybrid to some degree, i.e some colors are the result of that some even permanent hybrids the extrem short legs of the japanese is a result of a gene that is lethal when homozygot.

I've been enjoying this discussion regarding hybridization....especially since my breeding Bielefelder cockerel has taken it upon himself to mate prolifically with my Australorps, Barred Rocks, White Rocks and Silkie. (Okay...seeing his massive 7.5 pound body atop my little 32 oz Silkie actually makes me cringe....but the combination of the two could be cute.)

So....I'm currently in the process of preparing to incubate some NN Turken eggs and figured, "Why not throw in some Bielefelder hybrids? Could result in not only some pretty birds, but some much more heat tolerant birds as well." And since my Biel pullets simply aren't ready for breeding.....Oh, why not?

I'm still looking forward to maintaining pure Bielefelders, but I'm curious to see how the genetics in the crosses play out and determine whether they follow my calculations or not.

Please post a photo of the Silkie mix, ... and mayby we will have a Silkfelder in some years....

 

[Candy442]

Bielefelders will become a "breed" when the APA says they are

 

[Bine]

Bielefelders will become a "breed" when the APA says they are

The only reason why the APA does not recognize the breed is b/c it was not bred in the USA. It's a German breed.
Bielefelders and Bielefelder bantams are shown in the European and the National Shows... and I think, the judges would have noticed if the were not in the Standard.
You may never have heard of breeds like Ayam Ketawa,

the Kosovo Longcrower

or this German breed...

but they are beeds... the NICE voice is still under construction....

 

[DesertChic]

Please post a photo of the Silkie mix, ... and mayby we will have a Silkfelder in some years....

You betcha!

 

[Candy442]

Quote:Originally Posted by Bine

The only reason why the APA does not recognize the breed is b/c it was not bred in the USA. It's a German breed.
Bielefelders and Bielefelder bantams are shown in the European and the National Shows... and I think, the judges would have noticed if the were not in the Standard.


I was being funny when I made my earlier post.

Of course it is a recognized breed in Germany. Things are different here when it comes to official "ordained" title of "breed". Where the "breed" originated does not matter to the APA. I am experiencing frustration with assisting the Iowa Blue become a recognized "breed" with our entire club petitioning the APA to recognize it. The Iowa Blue started in Iowa around 1920 so there you go!

It is a long involved process and until then, the "breed" is considered "mutts" in APA eyes. It is important for showing the birds that it is an APA established breed. Those who don't care to or ever will show Bieles here in the US should not worry about faults on the comb or exact "standards". It takes work to have the APA recognize Bieles as a breed- minimum of five years of exhibition status by 5 different APA members, development within an organized Biele club for the standards of each pullet/hen, cockerel/rooster...etc.

Yes, for all intents and purposes, all of the chickens that can multiply themselves and have consistent feathering outcome is a "breed". The APA must put it's stamp of approval out there to make Bieles legitimate "breed" in America. I am just talking about different meanings of the word breed. I call them a "breed" when talking about how much I love these birds but they are not an official breed in the eyes of the APA yet.

In the meantime, our farm is committed to breed as close to the German standard as possible with the small gene pool in our country. We have boys from two different lines and females from two different lines to work with and will practice rolling method with the 8 that we have (two boys, six girls).