A Bielefelder Thread !

[jbkirk]

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[Faraday40]

We live in the Mississippi flyway. The last few years have been nail-biters due to AI (avian influenza)! Many commercial poultry farms had to kill millions of birds. Every state surrounding IL had multiple cases, yet few backyard flocks have been positive. Often those few backyard flocks happened to live in a county near commercial farms or had their waterfowl & chickens mingling with wild birds. The general hypothesis was that AI was spread via equipment, feeders, employees, or even vehicles that went from farm to farm. That's why the small backyard flocks were not affected as badly. In other words, make up a good bio-security plan & work hard to stick with it. I have no idea why IL didn't have any recorded cases in 2015. At the time I felt that it probably was in IL & simply not reported. Besides the public egg shortage in 2015 & most Midwest states banning poultry from fairs, we didn't hear much about it this year. IL did not ban poultry shows, but no out of state birds were permitted. Still, I personally didn't want to allow my birds to attend any fairs. They are more like pets.

From the beginning our family has always had "muddy shoes" for the backyard. After AI, I did not allow anyone to walk into our backyard without changing their shoes. (We keep a few assorted crocs on our back porch along with disinfectant.) Although we do not have a pond, geese, ducks, or turkeys, I was afraid that goose poop from a nearby park could innocently be transported into our backyard via a kid's shoe. Since most people don't want to step in chicken poo, they're grateful to borrow a pair of muddy shoes.

 

[Sylvester017]

I read an article in a poultry magazine recently about how a university in CA is trying to get all backyard flock owners to "register" their flock with the university so they can 'track disease migration and origin'. I just cringed. I've heard plenty of reports about how the "biosecure" commercial industries have lost their birds to disease and have many theories as to why that is, but backyard flocks haven't suffered the same consequences unless the government came in and culled all of the birds as a knee-jerk reaction to the potential of spreading the disease. I even read of one backyard flock owner whose entire flock was culled and THEN sent for testing only to discover that none of her birds weren't infected. She was a heritage breeder and lost years worth of work on the possibility that the disease could be present. I personally see far more harm than good to the small poultry keeper by registering their flocks. I simply don't trust the government's proclamation of altruistic intent.

Media spin on things doesn't help either -- as we've seen in this past year's presidential election.

A BYC NoCA owner had received a shipment of hatching eggs supposedly exposed to AI and a regulatory agency wanted to come in and euthanize his entire flock of geese, ducks, chickens, and exotic game birds. For once the local media did a good thing putting the story on the news and with that media publicity the owner "miraculously" got a 30-day reprieve from the pressured agency -- in which time the agency found no AI infection present in the shipped hatching eggs and the flock was saved from destruction. Seems govt does things backwards -- wouldn't it make more sense testing the hatching eggs first and find results BEFORE destroying a flock? Backyarders and the general populace are receiving all sorts of invasive regulations from govt bureaucracies that kowtow to big business/industries that have the controlling purse strings to sway lawmakers into passing cumbersome restrictions. Big poultry industries want to control industrial farming and eliminate the competition of backyard or small farm or organic operations. Thank you Bine, SunHwaKon, and DesertChic for your input to keep backyarders informed.

 

[Sylvester017]

I am lucky to have my birds in a district with no large water areas, migratory bird sanctuaries or poultry industry. It is a low-risk district and we have only the "pre-warn" stage. But the neighboring cities have high risk areas. The meadows on the Rhine are resting places for many migratory birds. Even though many people do not believe the official version of the spread by wild birds. Here areas with many poultry farms are more frequently affected. Therefore, many believe here that the flu is spread by feed additives contaminated with the pathogen and the wild birds are infected by the dung of the poultry farms and so spread the pathogen.
And most of the people in my Poltry Club are prone to believe, that this is a far better explaination for the outbreaks:
https://www.grain.org/article/entri...ndustry-s-central-role-in-the-bird-flu-crisis

What a very extensive article that explains nicely the endemic virus vs the mutated virus which seems to only generate in heavily populated industrial flocks. I couldn't stop devouring paragraph after paragraph on the interesting alternative research that migratory routes are probably not the cause of the disease but that huge industrial farming is more suspicious - that AI is endemic in most birds but that it takes a dense population of industrial farm birds to cause the endemic virus to transmute into the more deadly form. At one time backyarders and small farmers were declared the answer to tackling world hunger and then govt powers did a 180 turn after big industrial business used funds to sway lawmakers into a totally opposite declaration. We all know the U.S. govt GMO bane that banned/affected small farmers from making their living supplying local markets/towns with organic goods.

Many of us backyarders (estimated 95-98% of us) have endemic virus carriers in our flocks and are unaware we have them -- CRD/MS/MG, Marek's, etc etc -- but our smaller yard flocks may never succumb to displaying any of the viral symptoms because the birds are healthy, well supplemented, hardy stock. We may lose a few weaker chicks to these endemic viruses but once hardier chicks are grown will most likely never exhibit symptoms even if they are carriers -- usually only stresses like climate extremes/changes, exhaustive egg-laying, poor nutrition, injuries, etc, can compromise their immune system enough to lessen their ability to fight off symptoms; otherwise carriers can live a long life without ever contracting a disease. Personally I still believe in treating bacterial or secondary bacterial infections in chickens but I'm finding so many of the viral diseases we hear horror stories of are mild in their endemic form and only compromised immune systems will bring on symptoms or death. I have a 5-yr-old Silkie with CRD issues from mild head-shaking to heavy wheezing usually brought on by inclement weather about once a year but a quick vet trip to treat the secondary bacterial infection and she's fine -- my other hens have been exposed to her and have never displayed symptoms. My vet always ends our visits with recommendations to use chicken vitamins to supplement their diet. Since following a chicken vitamin/Poly-Vi-Sol/Vit E/ and Selenium supplementation the Silkie's symptoms are much milder to almost non-discernible (except that I know what to watch for early in her to catch it in the bud). I've received shipped birds with active CRD symptoms and after secondary bacterial treatment and vitamin-fortified diets have never displayed outbreaks again.

So, I'm a believer in your Poultry Club's belief regarding the AI outbreaks in poultry. Thank you so much for sharing as it adds to reinforce my personal (and my vet's personal) beliefs.

 

[alarson1019]

I was hoping to get your thoughts on my Niederrheiner. He's about 8 months old with a wonderful disposition and looks like a good specimen to me but I may be biased lol

 

[DesertChic]

What a very extensive article that explains nicely the endemic virus vs the mutated virus which seems to only generate in heavily populated industrial flocks. I couldn't stop devouring paragraph after paragraph on the interesting alternative research that migratory routes are probably not the cause of the disease but that huge industrial farming is more suspicious - that AI is endemic in most birds but that it takes a dense population of industrial farm birds to cause the endemic virus to transmute into the more deadly form. At one time backyarders and small farmers were declared the answer to tackling world hunger and then govt powers did a 180 turn after big industrial business used funds to sway lawmakers into a totally opposite declaration. We all know the U.S. govt GMO bane that banned/affected small farmers from making their living supplying local markets/towns with organic goods.

Many of us backyarders (estimated 95-98% of us) have endemic virus carriers in our flocks and are unaware we have them -- CRD/MS/MG, Marek's, etc etc -- but our smaller yard flocks may never succumb to displaying any of the viral symptoms because the birds are healthy, well supplemented, hardy stock. We may lose a few weaker chicks to these endemic viruses but once hardier chicks are grown will most likely never exhibit symptoms even if they are carriers -- usually only stresses like climate extremes/changes, exhaustive egg-laying, poor nutrition, injuries, etc, can compromise their immune system enough to lessen their ability to fight off symptoms; otherwise carriers can live a long life without ever contracting a disease. Personally I still believe in treating bacterial or secondary bacterial infections in chickens but I'm finding so many of the viral diseases we hear horror stories of are mild in their endemic form and only compromised immune systems will bring on symptoms or death. I have a 5-yr-old Silkie with CRD issues from mild head-shaking to heavy wheezing usually brought on by inclement weather about once a year but a quick vet trip to treat the secondary bacterial infection and she's fine -- my other hens have been exposed to her and have never displayed symptoms. My vet always ends our visits with recommendations to use chicken vitamins to supplement their diet. Since following a chicken vitamin/Poly-Vi-Sol/Vit E/ and Selenium supplementation the Silkie's symptoms are much milder to almost non-discernible (except that I know what to watch for early in her to catch it in the bud). I've received shipped birds with active CRD symptoms and after secondary bacterial treatment and vitamin-fortified diets have never displayed outbreaks again.

So, I'm a believer in your Poultry Club's belief regarding the AI outbreaks in poultry. Thank you so much for sharing as it adds to reinforce my personal (and my vet's personal) beliefs.

I'm a firm believer that "natural" disease as a general rule cannot exist within a truly healthy body, no matter what the species. Those commercial agricultural farms are pretty disgusting and scary, and completely unnatural for the species raised within them. Hazmat suits are required because the ammonia levels are so high that the air is actually toxic for humans to breathe. Is it any wonder that free-ranging backyard animals fed a proper diet prove hardier than commercial animals? And when it comes to chickens, well....they're pretty darn easy for the average person to keep around, especially in small numbers. Given the growing popularity of having "hobby farms", I have to believe that the commercial industry is feeling the pinch...and not appreciating it.

A friend of mine emailed a news article to me about how there's been a dramatic increase in salmonella cases in this country....because of backyard chick keepers. Really? I find that hard to believe. It really is getting hard to decipher fact from opinion from propaganda.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen photo evidence of all the poultry killed in this country due to the flu outbreaks? Or only read reports indicating that it happened?

 

[Sylvester017]

I'm a firm believer that "natural" disease as a general rule cannot exist within a truly healthy body, no matter what the species. Those commercial agricultural farms are pretty disgusting and scary, and completely unnatural for the species raised within them. Hazmat suits are required because the ammonia levels are so high that the air is actually toxic for humans to breathe. Is it any wonder that free-ranging backyard animals fed a proper diet prove hardier than commercial animals? And when it comes to chickens, well....they're pretty darn easy for the average person to keep around, especially in small numbers. Given the growing popularity of having "hobby farms", I have to believe that the commercial industry is feeling the pinch...and not appreciating it.

A friend of mine emailed a news article to me about how there's been a dramatic increase in salmonella cases in this country....because of backyard chick keepers. Really? I find that hard to believe. It really is getting hard to decipher fact from opinion from propaganda.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen photo evidence of all the poultry killed in this country due to the flu outbreaks? Or only read reports indicating that it happened?

Come to think of it I've only seen the AI reports on the govt agency websites and no photos!

 

[Faraday40]

A friend of mine emailed a news article to me about how there's been a dramatic increase in salmonella cases in this country....because of backyard chick keepers. Really? I find that hard to believe. It really is getting hard to decipher fact from opinion from propaganda.

Yes, my MIL has also shared such articles & simply won't eat eggs unless they come from a store. (Actually she eats fake eggs in a carton - that processed egg-white stuff.) In many of the articles the salmonella comes from people housing chicks in the kitchen where their is being prepared. Handling any animal & then eating w/o washing hands is a pretty efficient way to get sick. Washing poop-crusted feeders/ water bowls in the kitchen sink is another. A little common sense goes a long way.

Of course with the way our commercial eggs & meat are grown & processed in our country, it's no surprise to me that salmonella is on the rise.

 

[Faraday40]

I was hoping to get your thoughts on my Niederrheiner. He's about 8 months old with a wonderful disposition and looks like a good specimen to me but I may be biased lol

Sorry I know nothing about the breed. but I think he looks very handsome. Great looking comb! I also like his full body shape.

 

[Bine]

In Germany you have to register all livestock to the national Livestock Insurance Fund and do a proper vaccination. With my menbership in our club all expences are paid for vaccination and registration. Every 3 month we do our vaccination against NC and Brochitis and most breeders vaccinate against salmonella,too.
Oh, and we don't wash and cool eggs, nobody does not even the big poultry farms and we air cool the meat birds after slaughtering and we have al lower rat of salmonella infection per capita then the US... as far as I know.... and this rate didn't raise for years, now.
Many small dairy farmers now have small free ranging chicken flocks b/c for two years or so the don't make any money with milk and so you can see mobile hen-homes popping up all over the country. The farmers sell milk and eggs, sometimes chees.. in little huts... and yes, it is raw unskimed milk and I never heard that someone catched an illniss from those huts.

This here is a quite typical set up
http://www.milch-automat.de/41333.html