A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[gjensen]

Hello all,

Normally I lurk and soak up the wealth of knowledge here, but I now find myself in need of some advice.

I am building my first sets of breeding pens this year and would like some input on size and anything else I might need to know in setting them up. I'm shopping for a toe punch also for tagging. I'm also curious about thoughts on wing banding for identification?

I will be breeding orpingtons and white rocks. My daughter will be breeding Sumatras.

How long will they be in the breeding pens?

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
And how many birds do you have, will you be using pairs, trios, quads, or flock breeding, how much room total do you have, will you be rotating different breeding groups through sequentially or will each breeding group stay in the pen long term, etc.

There are so many different options for managing breeding birds -- probably hundreds, and everyone does it a little differently. Some people use breeding pens that are tiny but keep a pair, trio, etc together for only a short time, and other people use very spacious pens but keep them together as a long term family, and anything in between. Some setups offer a very good life for the birds, and others are less than humane. What type of infrastructure would be best for your birds depends on your management plan, the temperament of your birds, the amount of space you have available, and your budget.

One thing to remember is that hens can retain sperm for more than a week, and some people have said at least a month. It is important to consider this if you set of a breeding management plan that involves moving hens away from a flock with multiple roosters to a single rooster breeding pen, or if you rotate a single rooster between numerous hens that are in individual pens for egg collection.

 

[ocap]

Hello all,

Normally I lurk and soak up the wealth of knowledge here, but I now find myself in need of some advice.

I am building my first sets of breeding pens this year and would like some input on size and anything else I might need to know in setting them up. I'm shopping for a toe punch also for tagging. I'm also curious about thoughts on wing banding for identification?

I will be breeding orpingtons and white rocks. My daughter will be breeding Sumatras.

Two very good responses above.

I just finished a pen and made it large and square, 28x28. The top is cattle panels(4 gauge)covered with chicken wire (19 gauge). The top required horizontal support, I put horizontal wood frame every seven feet. The square design because a square gives the most area inside (cost of construction), much better than a narrow rectangle. The draw back is easier to care for the birds if every pen has an outside door. My pen is already divided into three pens inside.

 

[Kinmera]

 How long will they be in the breeding pens?

And how many birds do you have, will you be using pairs, trios, quads, or flock breeding, how much room total do you have, will you be rotating different breeding groups through sequentially or will each breeding group stay in the pen long term, etc.

There are so many different options for managing breeding birds -- probably hundreds, and everyone does it a little differently.  Some people use breeding pens that are tiny but keep a pair, trio, etc together for only a short time, and other people use very spacious pens but keep them together as a long term family, and anything in between.  Some setups offer a very good life for the birds, and others are less than humane.  What type of infrastructure would be best for your birds depends on your management plan, the temperament of your birds, the amount of space you have available, and your budget.

One thing to remember is that hens can retain sperm for more than a week, and some people have said at least a month.  It is important to consider this if you set of a breeding management plan that involves moving hens away from a flock with multiple roosters to a single rooster breeding pen, or if you rotate a single rooster between numerous hens that are in individual pens for egg collection. 

These are great things and some I hadn't known to think about.

All of the hens/pullets are currently placed in coops of 3 to 5 hens and 1 rooster. As soon as WNY thaws out this spring I have several 4x 8 foot chicken tractors (3 at the moment and more ready to be built) that i move chickens into. These tractors are moved twice a day on pasture.

What I was looking for was a way to more closely monitor which off spring come from specific pairings. My initial thought was to use pallets, which i can get for free and cover them with poultry wire. The pallets would then be used to create 4x8 pens for a single hen. These pens could be tarped over 1/2 and placed outside in the summer on grass. I am picturing a two week stay in the pen so that I can get enough eggs for hatching.

Maybe what I should do is keep the small groupings as I currently have them. I have been reading the sop and have quality birds that have been evaluated by both Rick Hare and Art Lundgren. Now I just need to figure out where to focus my efforts on. I already eliminated birds with improper leg color and comb shapes, because I can spot those easily. I now need to work on the things that are harder to spot. I am also just realizing that it is ok to keep birds longer to be truly able to evaluate them. I Can always move culls to my laying flock.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
I think the plan for your 4X8 pallet crates would work very well for some hens in some circumstances, and not well for others. Some things to consider:

1) Poultry wire is great at keeping chickens in, but not great at keeping predators out. Most raccoons and some dogs can break through it, some ferrets/mink/snakes can get through it, raccoons can reach through it to pull bird's heads off, etc. Many predators will dig under crates. So it is important to consider what predators you have, especially if you will be leaving the chickens in these crates at night, when the risks of predators increase significantly.

2) Poultry are very social, flock-dependent animals. Many are fine as long as they can see other flock members, and others will be stressed when they are separated from their group, or if they can't find their familiar nest boxes. Some stressed hens will stop laying eggs -- others keep laying no matter what.

3) While hens have the capacity to retain sperm for a month or more, that doesn't mean that every hen does so, or that fertility doesn't wane as time passes. I don't know the statistics of how quickly the average hen loses fertility, but I have read that some breeders have their hens mated every 5-7 days (those that don't keep the roosters and hens together, that is). Since not every mating will achieve adequate contact, it is probably important for each hen to be mated 2-4 times per week to be sure that insemination is adequate. If you want specific pair matings, it is also important to prevent contact with any other rooster for 4-6 weeks prior to collecting eggs for hatching (maybe that long isn't necessary, but a reasonable precaution to be sure you get the genetics that you want).

4) For people that like keeping both breeding hens and layer hens for extra eggs, choosing layer hen breeds that lay eggs of a different color than the breeder hens can make things easier. You can have all the advantages of individual pair matings, but still maintain all the benefits of the small harem flock social structure. An example would be keeping several pairs of breeding quality Dorkings, which lay white eggs. You can keep each pair in separate pens, but in doing so the hens may get "over mated," since you have a 1:1 hen to rooster ratio. But if you had a single Dorking hen, plus 4-5 additional Maran or Americana hens, in each pen with a single Dorking cock, you could easily tell which egg was laid by the Dorking hen, you would have additional colorful eggs (which sell well), and would still be able to maintain a higher hen to rooster ratio so no single hen would be as likely to get overused. Since the breeder hens would not have to be separated from the flock to identify which egg they laid, they would not go through the stress of relocation, and you would not need separate temporary housing to identify your breeder eggs. You could also use the same strategy for concurrently pair-mating Dorkings and hatching out meat hybrids by using 4-5 Delaware hens instead of Marans, as the Delaware X Dorking hybrids should grow out more rapidly than the pure Dorking culls (14-18 weeks vs 20-30 weeks), produce nice carcasses, and the eggs of the Delaware hens should be easy to distinguish from the single Dorking hen in the pen. (Numerous other "second" breeds could be used, depending on what your goals are for you extra eggs, and your personal preferences. The only requirement would be that the breeds tolerate each other well, and that the eggs of the second breed be easily distinguished from the one breeding quality hen in the pen.) This strategy does require keeping larger numbers of hens, and having enough room and infrastructure of all of them, but if those requirements can be met it does solve many issues simultaneously.

5) Never be reluctant to keep your young birds long enough to fully evaluate them, as long as you have the room and can afford the feed. Sometimes that means a year or more. Culls of any age can be cooked to perfection using the right recipe, so you aren't wasting a bird by letting it get "old and tough." Properly cooked, older birds often have better flavor and quite tender meat. And as a new breeder, I find that I learn so much from watching all my birds grow and mature, culls included.

 

[chambe94]

4) For people that like keeping both breeding hens and layer hens for extra eggs, choosing layer hen breeds that lay eggs of a different color than the breeder hens can make things easier. You can have all the advantages of individual pair matings, but still maintain all the benefits of the small harem flock social structure. An example would be keeping several pairs of breeding quality Dorkings, which lay white eggs. You can keep each pair in separate pens, but in doing so the hens may get "over mated," since you have a 1:1 hen to rooster ratio. But if you had a single Dorking hen, plus 4-5 additional Maran or Americana hens, in each pen with a single Dorking cock, you could easily tell which egg was laid by the Dorking hen, you would have additional colorful eggs (which sell well), and would still be able to maintain a higher hen to rooster ratio so no single hen would be as likely to get overused. Since the breeder hens would not have to be separated from the flock to identify which egg they laid, they would not go through the stress of relocation, and you would not need separate temporary housing to identify your breeder eggs. You could also use the same strategy for concurrently pair-mating Dorkings and hatching out meat hybrids by using 4-5 Delaware hens instead of Marans, as the Delaware X Dorking hybrids should grow out more rapidly than the pure Dorking culls (14-18 weeks vs 20-30 weeks), produce nice carcasses, and the eggs of the Delaware hens should be easy to distinguish from the single Dorking hen in the pen. (Numerous other "second" breeds could be used, depending on what your goals are for you extra eggs, and your personal preferences. The only requirement would be that the breeds tolerate each other well, and that the eggs of the second breed be easily distinguished from the one breeding quality hen in the pen.) This strategy does require keeping larger numbers of hens, and having enough room and infrastructure of all of them, but if those requirements can be met it does solve many issues simultaneously.

My mind is completely blown! This is such a simple concept and I never thought of that. This solves a whole bunch of my winter breeding problems (like not having 50 different waterers to plug in, worrying about singles or pairs getting too cold because not enough bodies to keep the coop warm at night, etc.).

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote: Thank you. I've only posted this strategy once before and got lots of negative comments (too complicated, requires too many birds, not something a professional breeder would do, "amateurish," etc,) , so I've been reluctant to publicize it again. (Some of the other threads are so contentious.) It's good to know that it helped someone instead of angered them!! I find this easy, and started doing it just for humane considerations of the breeding hen. Now I find that each small group forms a long term, dedicated family unit that free ranges together when I'm not collecting hatching eggs. Sometimes multiple families will hang out together while free ranging, but oftentimes each family stays to itself. Free ranging in the off season doesn't work if the roosters fight, but usually with mine there's just a small scuffle at the beginning to establish dominance, then they co-exist well together. When there's plenty to do, plenty of room, and a beautiful harem following you around, these boys don't feel the need to do any serious fighting. But I also select roosters for temperament in addition to SOP standards, so it keeps the drama to a minimum.

 

[kimberly35042]

Too complicated? Keeping them as a flock and still getting your pair mating and a pretty egg basket? Win-win in my book!

 

[chickadoodles]

Central Alabama Chicken Trader on Facebook posted this in hopes of helping the owner find their lost birds:

Cherokeebirds

WAKE UP AND PAY ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!! Our local postmaster has contacted us and there is a shipment of live adult chickens stuck at the Memphis Fed Ex terminal with NO mailing label! It is a set of three horizon shipping boxes and these are pics of the actual boxes. I believe there was a 4th box possibly and when they all came apart the box with the label continued on its journey leaving these four behind. If anyone has any leads please call my cell at 580-747-5851 and please share this message to every chicken group there is. CherokeeBirds does have contacts in the Memphis area so we can help out, we just need to know who the owner is.

 

[chickadoodles]

Central Alabama Chicken Trader on Facebook posted this in hopes of helping the owner find their lost birds:

Cherokeebirds

WAKE UP AND PAY ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!! Our local postmaster has contacted us and there is a shipment of live adult chickens stuck at the Memphis Fed Ex terminal with NO mailing label! It is a set of three horizon shipping boxes and these are pics of the actual boxes. I believe there was a 4th box possibly and when they all came apart the box with the label continued on its journey leaving these four behind. If anyone has any leads please call my cell at 580-747-5851 and please share this message to every chicken group there is. CherokeeBirds does have contacts in the Memphis area so we can help out, we just need to know who the owner is.

Update the owner was found!