Amino Acid Requirements--Adult Hen?

[Perris]

Good luck with sourcing good feed and/or good feed ingredients. Sadly I have nothing to add on lupins, as I can't get them here, so my research on them stopped early. But there is currently a proposal to grow a lot more legumes of all sorts in the UK, so maybe someday they will be back on my agenda

 

[EuroChook]

Good luck with sourcing good feed and/or good feed ingredients. Sadly I have nothing to add on lupins, as I can't get them here, so my research on them stopped early. But there is currently a proposal to grow a lot more legumes of all sorts in the UK, so maybe someday they will be back on my agenda

Hello UK! Thank you.
See though? This is what I mean. You want to know how to grow chicks. Some info. Want layers? Done. Want to know anything else? Bah... who cares, is the attitude. Raise them for eggs or flesh. Info is very scarce otherwise. This is ( yep, I will now don activism hat) animal exploitation.

As for the Lupin species... probably something in the outer skin yields toxins, where chickens are concerned. Probably simulates neuropeptide cascade and inflammation, leading to delayed onset gout, arthritis, tachycardia and early death.

 

[Sussex19]

As for the Lupin species... probably something in the outer skin yields toxins, where chickens are concerned. Probably simulates neuropeptide cascade and inflammation, leading to delayed onset gout, arthritis, tachycardia and early death.

I have been feeding some Lupins for a couple of months now, and haven't seen any adverse side effects yet.
They are cracked, which means all the shell falls off, and doesn't get eaten so maybe that helps? I can let you know if I do see any problems, if you like?

 

[Perris]

Info is very scarce otherwise.

you might find this book useful (my review of it linked below)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/reviews/the-chicken-a-natural-history.12021/

 

[EuroChook]

you might find this book useful (my review of it linked below)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/reviews/the-chicken-a-natural-history.12021/

Where have you been hiding? Thank you. But now publishers want us to buy that which God made certain. And plastic Coke bottles.

 

[EuroChook]

I have been feeding some Lupins for a couple of months now, and haven't seen any adverse side effects yet.
They are cracked, which means all the shell falls off, and doesn't get eaten so maybe that helps? I can let you know if I do see any problems, if you like?

I much prefer my maudlin shadows. Give me a moment please. I will return.

 

[EuroChook]

I much prefer my maudlin shadows. Give me a moment please. I will return.

I further counter:

"All parts of lupin(e) plants, which are more common in mountainous areas, contain a toxin called quinolizidine alkaloids that cause nervousness, depression, aimless wandering, muscle twitching and convulsions in chickens." Apart from which they do just fine.

They also make we humans whaff off big time. Else they might have been thought useful earlier.

You may counter. Im no snowflake. I don't mean to ever sound argumentative. So you are free to counter. Our chickens' best interests are determined by the outcome. (Sounds like that custody battle movie.. what was it? Kramer vs Kramer?)

 

[Sussex19]

I further counter:

"All parts of lupin(e) plants, which are more common in mountainous areas, contain a toxin called quinolizidine alkaloids that cause nervousness, depression, aimless wandering, muscle twitching and convulsions in chickens." Apart from which they do just fine.

They also make we humans whaff off big time. Else they might have been thought useful earlier.

You may counter. Im no snowflake. I don't mean to ever sound argumentative. So you are free to counter. Our chickens' best interests are determined by the outcome. (Sounds like that custody battle movie.. what was it? Kramer vs Kramer?)

Interestingly, this is not quite matching up with what I am finding.
For example, in this article https://poultry.extension.org/artic...umes-in-poultry-feed/lupins-in-poultry-diets/
it states that sweet lupins can be fed so as to make up 40% of a broilers diet; and from what I can make out the only obvious adverse effects are that they reduces the nutrients from the feed, if fed in excess. (which would obviously cause problems, but they are not 'poisonous' as such.

 

[Sussex19]

This is another interesting article, which confirms only sweet lupins are grown as stockfeed.
It says they can also be used in layer diets, at up to 20%.
https://www.riverina.com.au/fileadmin/riverina/documents/Products/grain/LUPINS_fact_sheet.pdf
edit, miss read one bit, both sweet and white lupins are grown, but it implies that almost all stockfeeds are sweet.

 

[EuroChook]

Yes. I read the first one. Thank you for the link. She admits the toxic content of lupins. She suggests so-called Sweet lupins (with lowered alkaloid levels) are relatively safe. But once again verifies lupins are essentially toxic, as further confirmed here:

https://chickendvm.com/poisonous/lupines

But then further research declares not even all sweet lupins to be safe:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11372712/

with the conclusion being: "Based on the present results, it can be stated that high levels of some varieties of sweet lupines in broiler diets may cause significant adverse effects manifested as 1) decreased feed intake and growth rate in most of the birds, and 2) specific signs of acute and chronic toxicity... "

In synthesis of pros and cons, it appears that so-named blue lupins are safer:

"Inclusion of blue lupins in the diet of laying hens at a rate of 150 g/kg DM resulted in no adverse effects in production or hen health and could be used as part of a balanced ration..."

(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2451943X16300096).

which then would mean a 15% lupin presence.
Double that, 30% blue lupin is suggested in alternative results here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7082746/

So yes, they are testifiably toxic. As for the heavily optimistic Dr. Jacquie Kennedy when she writes at poultry.extension she does so without peer review and does not make a statement at any point declaring she has no personal stake invested in the outcome of her viewpoint, which is the least moderate of viewpoints around. Hence we wonder why?

As to the riverina link (and thanks again for these) no sources are cited at all to verify claims. A vague line appears saying, "REF ..." then gives a name and dates it 1985. If the meaning there is that data is 38 years old, we would have to deeply query this data, and it definitely would not be admissible as a primary reference for a research piece now.

This one, also from Australia, refers only to cattle and sheep, but also gives the conditions under which blue lupins are also toxic:

https://keys.lucidcentral.org/keys/v3/pastures/Html/Blue_lupin.htm

Summing up, all lupins are toxic. Blue lupins among the sweet category seem to carry less risk. But liberal use must be absolutely avoided.

Personally, I don't want lupins in my diet per se. I wouldn't like to consume food raised on a lupin diet. One is free to do what they are convinced they should do. But puritanical I won't be giving lupins to chickens.