Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Happy Chooks]

As my wife and I keep leaning toward raising non-hatchery standard chickens, we come up with more questions. I've asked a few questions previously with great answers on this thread so I'd like to ask a few more.


In our current flock of 35, there is 1 cock. With the eggs that we eat, we're seeing a 90-95% fertility rate, and he has 3 of the hens backs completely worn out. Is that normal?


When we started our flock, we had 2 cockerels, but they fought to the point that one of them constantly had blood spattered on him. We have since eaten the aggressor since he was also getting after our daughters. I have heard from some in-laws that used to raise chickens, that if you have more than one cock, no matter the number of hens, at least one will become aggressive(no matter the initial disposition) toward the others. Is this true? What's the best way to mitigate this problem when all of the chickens are free range? They free range 15 acres except when we have to irrigate and harvest. Then they're locked in their 32'x13' tractor. We do not want to keep 3 or 4 year round stationary pens just for the breeding stock.


What we do have is the space and equipment to set up 7 pens for breeding/brooding. Once the breeding and brooding are done, we want to integrate everything into one or two tractors for the majority of the year.


I have more questions, but I’ll stick to flock cohesiveness and setup for now.


Thanks,
Colburg

I'm surprised you are getting that high of a fertility rate with that ratio. The rooster always has a favorite, and in my flock, there's always one hen that ends up with some wear on her back.

I have run multiple cocks together without issue in the past. If raised together, they seem to do fine. Even if they are different ages, as long as they are raised from when one is a young cockerel, it generally works out in my experience. Now there's always the exception to the rule - might not ALWAYS work, you don't know until you try. My cocks are laid back and not aggressive. I won't keep an aggressive cock - had one once and he flogged me at hip level and I'm 5'8". He was gone the day I bent down to clean a waterer and he tried going for my head.

 

[finnfur]

I too must share my joy from Kathy! Excellent stock from an generous and lovely heart, right to my doorstep! And she threw in some excellent little WRs x 2!!!

All are wild and woolly and growing like weeds at a wk old. now...this the day they arrived. If you see wet spots on their fur, it's due to the tears of joy.....

Yep The KIMNIM line of Delawares must be flying of the shelf so to speak - looks like we got the remaining from your hatch [ 1 White rock by mistake lol ]- we are happy

 

[finnfur]

Don't have much to say except I need to talk to Al Gore about this. I cant be leave this. They where talking about snow today or last night in Colorado. Its going to get up to about 80 here today.

Yep ! Our green earth friendly Mr Al lives in a Interstate Motel size energy hogging house and wants us to ride bikes to work LOL

 

[finnfur]

When we started our flock, we had 2 cockerels, but they fought to the point that one of them constantly had blood spattered on him. We have since eaten the aggressor since he was also getting after our daughters. I have heard from some in-laws that used to raise chickens, that if you have more than one cock, no matter the number of hens, at least one will become aggressive(no matter the initial disposition) toward the others. Is this true? What's the best way to mitigate this problem when all of the chickens are free range? They free range 15 acres except when we have to irrigate and harvest. Then they're locked in their 32'x13' tractor. We do not want to keep 3 or 4 year round stationary pens just for the breeding stock.

Last year we had 14 hens and 5 Cocks all in a enet enclosure of 265' / shared coop. They all got along even though there was predominant Cock #1 and #2 . Our problem was to much activity for the Hens. I point out these were raised together and that makes a difference . Every thing was fine until we separated Cock #1 and the three odd outs in a 4x8 pen until processing [ kept #2 for the better temperament ] After 3 days one had no tail feathers and several were losing feathers and some blood so we processed early. So confined quarters made a big difference in this case.

 

[bnjrob]

As my wife and I keep leaning toward raising non-hatchery standard chickens, we come up with more questions. I've asked a few questions previously with great answers on this thread so I'd like to ask a few more.


In our current flock of 35, there is 1 cock. With the eggs that we eat, we're seeing a 90-95% fertility rate, and he has 3 of the hens backs completely worn out. Is that normal?


When we started our flock, we had 2 cockerels, but they fought to the point that one of them constantly had blood spattered on him. We have since eaten the aggressor since he was also getting after our daughters. I have heard from some in-laws that used to raise chickens, that if you have more than one cock, no matter the number of hens, at least one will become aggressive(no matter the initial disposition) toward the others. Is this true? What's the best way to mitigate this problem when all of the chickens are free range? They free range 15 acres except when we have to irrigate and harvest. Then they're locked in their 32'x13' tractor. We do not want to keep 3 or 4 year round stationary pens just for the breeding stock.


What we do have is the space and equipment to set up 7 pens for breeding/brooding. Once the breeding and brooding are done, we want to integrate everything into one or two tractors for the majority of the year.


I have more questions, but I’ll stick to flock cohesiveness and setup for now.


Thanks,
Colburg

Reading the other responses and what my experience is - there are a ton of variables as to whether or not you can keep more than one male together without fighting or not. Some will tolerate other cocks and some won't.

We've raised groups of males together and some of them can live with other males and others can't - regardless of whether or not they are with any females or if they grew up together. And while they may be aggressive toward each other, they aren't necessarily aggressive toward people. If they are aggressive toward people, we eat them. We did eat a couple that were not people aggressive, but they were too rough with hens and could not live in bachelor's quarters in peace either.

Honestly, you're just gonna have to figure out what works for you and your flock. You have to go with the flow because something that works now may not work in the future. There are way too many variables and things that happen on a daily basis that can cause fights between your chickens. And you may not even know what happened to change the balance of power and peace in your flock. If there is a quick fix for keeping peace in the chicken kingdom, I haven't found it yet.

 

[HEChicken]

Have any of you noticed any correlation between age of sperm and thriftiness of hatchlings? Or any affect of heat on a cock's sperm? I have been continuing to incubate eggs from my Good Shepard Barred Rocks but took the male out of the breeding pen on 4/2. I am patiently waiting for all the eggs to be infertile since I wanted to switch males and hatch some from my other male. I have seen a decline in fertility, but it has been too soon, I think, for it to be because the sperm from previous matings is no longer viable. Wondering if it could be the heat. It just hit 95 here today, but up until today, it has "just" been in the upper 80's. Eggs laid 4/2 to 4/6, 5 out of 17 were infertile. Eggs laid 4/7 to 4/15, 5 out of 31 were infertile, so almost twice the # of eggs, but same # of infertile

Is there any problem with hatching eggs that are fertilized from "old" semen? And as far as the heat, do others who live in very hot climates notice decline in fertility? I wonder if the heat affects the sperm or if the heat is just inhibiting the males from breeding. I am thinking may be best to wait until fall to hatch from the other male? Opinions?

This doesn't entirely relate to heat but to the waiting period to have the eggs fertilized by the cock bird of your choice. I had always heard the conventional wisdom about eggs being fertile for 2-3 weeks after the removal of a cock bird but recently read a study that indicated that while that is true, if a new cock bird is introduced immediately, the eggs are very quickly fertilized by the new cock. The short version of the way it works is that sperm is put into a holding tank, and the newest, freshest sperm is used to fertilize each new egg. So if you have Cock Bird A in with the hens and remove him on Monday, replacing him immediately with Cock Bird B, in theory, by Tuesday, the eggs will be fertilized by Cock Bird B (assuming he mates with them within hours of introduction). While I'm sure this information is contentious, and you would probably want to wait longer than a day to be sure, anecdotally, I experienced this very recently myself. I had a Welsummer and wanted to make a few Olive Eggers. So I collected a few green eggs and incubated them. I then rehomed the Welsummer. Several days after rehoming him, I had a hen go broody and decided I may as well hatch a few more potential Olive Eggers, so I gave her three to sit on. They hatched 10 days ago, and look NOTHING like the original OE's I hatched 10 days before them. In fact, they are white, and have feathered legs, just like my Cochin cockerel. So it appears that although the Welsummer had only left the farm 3 days earlier, the Cochin got busy and the eggs were almost immediately fertilized by him.

So if you are wanting to hatch eggs from your other bird, you don't necessarily have to wait for a complete decline in fertility, but in theory if you add the new bird, you can begin incubating right away and the offspring should be his.

In our current flock of 35, there is 1 cock. With the eggs that we eat, we're seeing a 90-95% fertility rate, and he has 3 of the hens backs completely worn out. Is that normal?

When we started our flock, we had 2 cockerels, but they fought to the point that one of them constantly had blood spattered on him. We have since eaten the aggressor since he was also getting after our daughters. I have heard from some in-laws that used to raise chickens, that if you have more than one cock, no matter the number of hens, at least one will become aggressive(no matter the initial disposition) toward the others. Is this true? What's the best way to mitigate this problem when all of the chickens are free range? They free range 15 acres except when we have to irrigate and harvest. Then they're locked in their 32'x13' tractor. We do not want to keep 3 or 4 year round stationary pens just for the breeding stock.

What we do have is the space and equipment to set up 7 pens for breeding/brooding. Once the breeding and brooding are done, we want to integrate everything into one or two tractors for the majority of the year.

It sounds like your cock bird is doing a great job, with fertility that good. It also sounds like he has one or two favorites. I have the same problem in my flock for the first time, recently. I have 20+ hens and 3 cockerels - never had a bare back until I traded out a Welsummer cockerel for a Frank Reese Barred Rock, and now two of the hens are showing a little wear. I'm hoping he'll go easier on them as he matures - right now he is just getting started with them. I am not going to worry about the wear on the back unless he opens up some wounds.

You made the right choice getting rid of a bird that is aggressive to people. However I disagree that it is not possible keep multiple males in with a flock of females. I usually have 2-3 at a time and don't have any issues with fighting. Until a couple of months ago I had a Welsummer, Cochin and Serama (I know that last one barely counts but he thinks he's all that

). I rehomed the Welsummer to make room for the Good Shepherd Barred Rock to become my head cock bird. Here's how that went: initially he was too shy to do anything and stayed at the periphery of the flock. As he grew and matured, so did his confidence. One day I witnessed him and the Cochin sparring. It went on for quite awhile and ended in the Cochin having a bloody comb and wattles, the BR unscathed and with the right to mate any of the hens and chase the Cochin away from treats. No more fighting - it was only to establish pecking order - and there is perfect peace in the flock. And where does the Serama fit into all this, you may wonder? Well, HE is the head cock bird. No kidding. That tiny little scrap of bird will chase that enormous, turkey-sized Barred Rock off every time.

I'm surprised you are getting that high of a fertility rate with that ratio. The rooster always has a favorite, and in my flock, there's always one hen that ends up with some wear on her back.

I have run multiple cocks together without issue in the past. If raised together, they seem to do fine. Even if they are different ages, as long as they are raised from when one is a young cockerel, it generally works out in my experience. Now there's always the exception to the rule - might not ALWAYS work, you don't know until you try. My cocks are laid back and not aggressive. I won't keep an aggressive cock - had one once and he flogged me at hip level and I'm 5'8". He was gone the day I bent down to clean a waterer and he tried going for my head.

x2

 

[Robert Blosl]

Normally, if you flock mate 20 Females you have say two males. Some big time chicken guys may have 25 and three males.

However, folks that are breeding to be preservationist don't do this. We have maybe three females and I male. We may have two or three breeding pens. We rotate our birds every year or what is called line breeding. You cant improve and maintain good traits by hatching a army of chickens. If you want a breed to hatch tons of chicks to make sales for people on this site or ebay that is all right as most of the customer base don't care about preservation or improving the breed.

I try to mate with pairs or even single male and female and take the males out every three days to rest the females.

Hatchery chickens such as Production are famous for being attackers to children or adults and might be very fighting up a storm in flock mattings. However, a Rhode Island Red like some of us have the dark kind we don't have mean males they are docile.

Interesting note I got a email from a friend a family wants to convert from production chickens to H chickens but when they told him how much the chicks where $8. for ten day olds the box and the shipping they went nuts. Heck the chicks at the feed store are $4. each.

Many want the real kind but don't want to put out the bucks for the investment.

I got 12 chicks in from Tenn today the shipping was $37. the box would have cost about $15. ten for the box and about $5 for postage to ship it to your breeders house then the cost of the chicks of $8.

Total cost about $165.

When people put up such a fuss it turns people off who want to help them then you wonder why so few will sell chicks and the egg thing is a nightmare for many of the breeders so they say NO.

I cant blame them. Thanks for the folks like Kathy from Mo who shares her stock. I tell you she drove 900 miles round trip to pick up barred rocks one time then about 500 miles round trip to pick up the new Hampshire's. Now you are getting the Delaware's for a steal.

 

[ronott1]

This doesn't entirely relate to heat but to the waiting period to have the eggs fertilized by the cock bird of your choice. I had always heard the conventional wisdom about eggs being fertile for 2-3 weeks after the removal of a cock bird but recently read a study that indicated that while that is true, if a new cock bird is introduced immediately, the eggs are very quickly fertilized by the new cock. The short version of the way it works is that sperm is put into a holding tank, and the newest, freshest sperm is used to fertilize each new egg. So if you have Cock Bird A in with the hens and remove him on Monday, replacing him immediately with Cock Bird B, in theory, by Tuesday, the eggs will be fertilized by Cock Bird B (assuming he mates with them within hours of introduction). While I'm sure this information is contentious, and you would probably want to wait longer than a day to be sure, anecdotally, I experienced this very recently myself. I had a Welsummer and wanted to make a few Olive Eggers. So I collected a few green eggs and incubated them. I then rehomed the Welsummer. Several days after rehoming him, I had a hen go broody and decided I may as well hatch a few more potential Olive Eggers, so I gave her three to sit on. They hatched 10 days ago, and look NOTHING like the original OE's I hatched 10 days before them. In fact, they are white, and have feathered legs, just like my Cochin cockerel. So it appears that although the Welsummer had only left the farm 3 days earlier, the Cochin got busy and the eggs were almost immediately fertilized by him.

So if you are wanting to hatch eggs from your other bird, you don't necessarily have to wait for a complete decline in fertility, but in theory if you add the new bird, you can begin incubating right away and the offspring should be his.

The theory does not work however. There have been a bunch of cases local to me, where waiting two weeks after removing he old Cock and adding new one resulted in a mix of breeds. A person that lives in Redding California had chicks hatch from the old Cock 27 days after switching Cock Birds.

It was easy to tell in these cases because they sere completely different breeds. I now have a lovely Wheaten Ameraucana X Silver Gray Dorking pullet--she lays the most beautiful blue eggs, has a beard, muff, white legs and five toes. The eggs were sold to me as being Pure SG Dorking....

The old timers were correct, wait 30 days before hatching after switching Cock Birds.

 

[Dahlisgrams]

Normally, if you flock mate 20 Females you have say two males. Some big time chicken guys may have 25 and three males.

However, folks that are breeding to be preservationist don't do this. We have maybe three females and I male. We may have two or three breeding pens. We rotate our birds every year or what is called line breeding. You cant improve and maintain good traits by hatching a army of chickens. If you want a breed to hatch tons of chicks to make sales for people on this site or ebay that is all right as most of the customer base don't care about preservation or improving the breed.

I try to mate with pairs or even single male and female and take the males out every three days to rest the females.

Hatchery chickens such as Production are famous for being attackers to children or adults and might be very fighting up a storm in flock mattings. However, a Rhode Island Red like some of us have the dark kind we don't have mean males they are docile.

Interesting note I got a email from a friend a family wants to convert from production chickens to H chickens but when they told him how much the chicks where $8. for ten day olds the box and the shipping they went nuts. Heck the chicks at the feed store are $4. each.

Many want the real kind but don't want to put out the bucks for the investment.

I got 12 chicks in from Tenn today the shipping was $37. the box would have cost about $15. ten for the box and about $5 for postage to ship it to your breeders house then the cost of the chicks of $8.

Total cost about $165.

When people put up such a fuss it turns people off who want to help them then you wonder why so few will sell chicks and the egg thing is a nightmare for many of the breeders so they say NO.

I cant blame them. Thanks for the folks like Kathy from Mo who shares her stock. I tell you she drove 900 miles round trip to pick up barred rocks one time then about 500 miles round trip to pick up the new Hampshire's. Now you are getting the Delaware's for a steal.

Unfortunately there are always those who want the best of everything for free. I personally don't mind paying for quality and really appreciate those who are willing to share their stock, whether it be chicks or eggs, with me. A big thank you to everyone who posts in this thread. I've learned so much from all of you.

I just received my copy of the 2010 SOP and am having trouble putting it down. Worth the weight in gold, in my humble opinion. Thinking about purchasing a second copy so that I can write all over one of them..

 

[neftaball]

Normally, if you flock mate 20 Females you have say two males. Some big time chicken guys may have 25 and three males.

However, folks that are breeding to be preservationist don't do this. We have maybe three females and I male. We may have two or three breeding pens. We rotate our birds every year or what is called line breeding. You cant improve and maintain good traits by hatching a army of chickens. If you want a breed to hatch tons of chicks to make sales for people on this site or ebay that is all right as most of the customer base don't care about preservation or improving the breed.

I try to mate with pairs or even single male and female and take the males out every three days to rest the females.

Hatchery chickens such as Production are famous for being attackers to children or adults and might be very fighting up a storm in flock mattings. However, a Rhode Island Red like some of us have the dark kind we don't have mean males they are docile.

Interesting note I got a email from a friend a family wants to convert from production chickens to H chickens but when they told him how much the chicks where $8. for ten day olds the box and the shipping they went nuts. Heck the chicks at the feed store are $4. each.

Many want the real kind but don't want to put out the bucks for the investment.

I got 12 chicks in from Tenn today the shipping was $37. the box would have cost about $15. ten for the box and about $5 for postage to ship it to your breeders house then the cost of the chicks of $8.

Total cost about $165.

When people put up such a fuss it turns people off who want to help them then you wonder why so few will sell chicks and the egg thing is a nightmare for many of the breeders so they say NO.

I cant blame them. Thanks for the folks like Kathy from Mo who shares her stock. I tell you she drove 900 miles round trip to pick up barred rocks one time then about 500 miles round trip to pick up the new Hampshire's. Now you are getting the Delaware's for a steal.

My thought on this is a lot of people want to buy hatching eggs, because they believe they are saving money. In my opinion, it reminds of the saying "penny wise, pound foolish". I would rather buy a trio or even a pair if possible from a reputable breeder. This way you know what you are getting up front. You also save a year of feeding, as well as have someone that knows has already done the culling. I am willing to buy chicks if that is the only way to get them, I rather not do shipped eggs, but sometimes that may be the only option. I think in the long haul you will be much farther ahead if you buy adults or close to, even if you have to pay $50 each or more, and shipping or travel.