Breda Fowl thread

[Sylvester017]

So how many plan on hatching a bunch of breda this spring? I didn't hatch any last year. This year every egg to the incubator. Only problem is most of my males are yucky. To much red in the lobe.

Hurray! Another breeder on the horizon! There are a few additional owners of Breda this past year so you should be able to find a better roo for your breeding program. Keep us informed of your project.

 

[Sylvester017]

I don't know if others have experienced this or not, but every time I bring in a rare breed I have about 20% losses in the first year. After that I choose the strongest birds to breed and don't see many losses in the following years (unless something like MS/MG is introduced to the property). It seems like it takes some adaptation with them the first year.

Some owners have lost most or all of their Breda hatched eggs or chicks on first try. I don't know anything about hatching but from what I understand it is trickier to hatch the rarer breeds and might need some incubator tweaking if not using an actual broody hen. Plus any shipped eggs can be a gamble through USPS. Don't give up on the Breda. We're all pulling for anyone with the space/zoning to give it a go. I know a breeder who got Isbar eggs from Greenfire a few years ago and had a lousy experience. Greenfire discovered later that a bacteria was causing hatch mortality and they had to import a new line of Isbar but by then the owner was too discouraged to try again with the newer imports. Some people just give up and want some easier breeds to raise. I can understand giving up on a breed if it isn't unique or has a standoffish temperament or is just ornamental but the Breda has too many useful qualities -- good egg layer, unique looks, many variety colors, and my favorite -- it has a family-friendly, curious, outgoing, non-combative temperament. They make stunning show entrants because of their unique appearance.

 

[boskelli1571]

My current pullets are either older than or just approaching the 1 year mark. So far no signs of sickness even in the young splash, but I still keep my fingers crossed for her...
My Waltzs Ark birds will be kept separate for a good while until I know they are 'clean'.
GaryDean26 - the self blue project...that would be very cool especially if they had the darker blue with lacing. I have one gal like that and she looks beautiful - I hope she gives me some chicks this year.
Syl - I'm not up on genetics enough to do major outcrossing, but if that time ever comes I have a short list of possible 'suspects' for crossing.

 

[Sophocles]

Breda are actually a very old Colonial breed and was as common as Dominiques were on Colonial farmsteads. The Breda recently were recreated in the Netherlands

Don't know about this, afaik the breed has been around in the Netherlands since at least the end of the 19th century. You might be mixing them up with the bantam form, that almost went extinct before it was picked up again.

 

[critterbug]

Hurray! Another breeder on the horizon! There are a few additional owners of Breda this past year so you should be able to find a better roo for your breeding program. Keep us informed of your project.

Had Breda since 2013. Still have some of my original birds. They all started out as BBS, but three hens became molteds after a couple of years of age. Should be cranking up the incubator soon.

 

[chicken danz]

Had Breda since 2013. Still have some of my original birds. They all started out as BBS, but three hens became molteds after a couple of years of age. Should be cranking up the incubator soon.

I got my first Breda back in about 2012 and still have at least a couple of the original birds who still lay once in a while. Critterbug I too now have some "mottles" but they are reverse color which is white with black spots rather than the opposite. Those are actually "sports". Beautiful none the less and I think prettier than the traditional mottles.

I don't know if others have experienced this or not, but every time I bring in a rare breed I have about 20% losses in the first year. After that I choose the strongest birds to breed and don't see many losses in the following years (unless something like MS/MG is introduced to the property). It seems like it takes some adaptation with them the first year.

The reason most people experience losses with new rare breeds is often because of a limited gene pool. Greenfire farm has started getting smart when importing after this repeated problem their customers experience by importing unrelated birds and then later importing another group. Unfortunately they didn't have that practice when they imported Bredas. So getting different genetic is kind of a luck of the draw.
Also when getting a new breed it's really important to get your birds from different breeders. I got my bredas as eggs from different suppliers but it is still a very limited gene pool.

So how many plan on hatching a bunch of breda this spring? I didn't hatch any last year. This year every egg to the incubator. Only problem is most of my males are yucky. To much red in the lobe.

I've been putting virtually every egg I get in the incubator. I've hatched several bredas and have gradually added some of those to my breeding pen. Of course I've also sold a number of them as well. I'm monitoroing them for leukosis. Unfortunately you can't tell if they have it or not until they get 4-9 months old. I've been very lucky and in the past 8 months only had 3 birds show any signs. Those birds were culled. I have three breeds of birds which I am considering doing some crosses with to improve resistance to leukosis and still keep the same Breda traits. Locating those birds is the hardest part. My guess is it would take close to two years to produce true Breda from this mix but it would be worth it if I could bring back the hardiness to all of them.
@Sylvester017 , I have to disagree on the MS/Mg thing and Breda fowl. There are many many viruses that cause the sniffles in birds. MG is a reportable disease in Kansas and if you have birds with it, the entire flock would be culled by the state dept of health. It is vertically transferred as well as transferred from bird to bird. I would cull every bird on the place if any had it. MS is also vertically transferred but doesn't effect as many birds. But those birds would always have a predestination of becoming ill again if they were stressed or worn down. I used to treat all my birds to get them well. Now they are quarantined and if they don't improve in a short time period I cull them.
We naturally have a few bouts of colds or sniffles here and there during migration periods. But I've tried to limit feed accessible to wild birds which has helped reduce it a lot. Our problem here is aspergillus. Not a communicable disease, but a problem from too much moisture. Our rain, snow etc seem to come in huge amounts in a short period of time. That makes for very wet conditions. So mold forms, and rather than ingest it, the birds breath it in. Then you have a chronic sneezing and congested bird. Thank goodness it isn't something they catch from one another because there is no treatment. It tend to affect the free rangers the most.

 

[GaryDean26]

The reason most people experience losses with new rare breeds is often because of a limited gene pool. Greenfire farm has started getting smart when importing after this repeated problem their customers experience by importing unrelated birds and then later importing another group. Unfortunately they didn't have that practice when they imported Bredas. So getting different genetic is kind of a luck of the draw.
Also when getting a new breed it's really important to get your birds from different breeders. I got my bredas as eggs from different suppliers but it is still a very limited gene pool.

I have a different opinion on gene pools.

In third world counties native breeds might only lay 80 eggs a year and might only reach mature weights of 4 lbs. Humanitarian groups started to import commercial breeds to these areas to improve their quality of life. They might import leghorns that produce 300 eggs a year or Brahma meat birds that average 14 lbs mature rate, but what they found is that these imported breeds would fail to thrive in the new area. They had to change the way they were doing things. I read a manual written by one of these group that had a recommend breeding plan that rather than trying to breed an imported Leghorn to another imported leghorn to produce pure leghorns they would cross the imported stock with the native stock and grade the native stock over to the Leghorn standard.

The native stock had lived in the areas for decades if not centuries and had adapted to where they could withstand all the conditions in the area. The bacterial found in the soil in one part of the word will be very different that what is found in a different part of the world. The breeds that had developed in the area have the genetic make up suited for the area. The imported breed might not. If a wide gene pool were imported then there would always be a portion of it that was suited for the new conditions (bacteria, diet, pathogens, climate, etc.). For example, if fowl pox went through the flock a wide gene pool would surly have some birds survive (but a narrow gene pool might not) because their genetic make up would allow them to be more resistant to the particular strain of fowl pox than others. When the survivers are breed together they pass of their genetic make up to their offspring and when the next generation gets hit by the same strain of Fowl pox that is unique to that area a higher percentage of the flock survives. They breed again the flock continues to adapt. Breeding the native birds that already had adaptations to pass on to offspring was more effective at establishing commercial birds in the third world counties than a large scale breeding project that might be logistically impossible to do.

I had a man in Canada tell me about one of the large breeding projects they did. They imported Light Sussex from the UK to a research station. In doing so they sought out a good cross section of the gene pool by getting stock from several unrelated blood lines. They then put all the imported stock in a single flock and grew it to 500-600 birds. As you can imagine they get a lot of cold weather in Canada in the winter and have other notable difference in climate from the UK (i.e. the feed wheat to their chickens in the UK but they feed Corn to their chickens in Canada, etc.). They let the flock "settle" for several years to allow genes to mix and for the ones best suited for the climate in Canada to rise to the top. They did this but not culling for the first five years. They kept a cockerel for about every 3 hens and let natural selection take its course. Line breeding or culling could block certain genes from rising in the gene pool. They reported that the birds became flighty, their eggs got really small, egg production was really low, etc. After they flock had mixed for 5 years they started line breeding and got cockerel 2 pound over the breed standard in just three years and reported that other utilities had similar success at being regained.

The man in Canada said the problem with Green Fire farm's method was not the number of birds or number of blood lines they were importing but the way they were being breed. They sell stock right away with out mixing the blood in large flocks. They mix what they are selling the best that they can and hope that some back yard breeder will do the flock of 500 hundred that isn't culled for several years thing (that ain't going to happen in backyard flocks). I say grow out as many as you can. I am a backyard breeder and limited in what I can do. My limit is 100 birds a year. I focus on vigor in my breeding. If someone has a respiratory illness they are culled, if someone holds their wings low they get culled. If they are not putting on enough weight they are culled, if they walk with stilty legs they get culled, if they sit in the hen house all day and don't forage they get culled. I have to grow out 100 so that I can get 2-3 good cockerels 4-6 good pullets. I never seem to get as good of birds as I want and always resolve to hatch a bigger group the next year.

 

[chicken danz]

Well I partially agree with you on that part. But you had said, Quote "but every time I bring in a rare breed I have about 20% losses in the first year." You didn't specifically say every time I bring in a new import. I only used Greenfire farms as an example since they are the ones that imported the Breda fowl in recent history. And that is the gene pool most of us are working from.
As far as new imports go you are absolutely on point. Those imports aren't used to our bacteria, environment or viruses. It takes a while to build immunity. I have gotten many newly imported birds but have never purchased any from Greenfire. There are many other very good importers in the U.S. But just the same I have experienced losses that only affected the newly imported birds. The survivors of some of those birds have been sold to friends and over the years they have gained the immunity they needed to become a hearty breed.
As far as rare breeds though I still believe inbreeding is a problem. Mainly because finding quality stock is difficult and then finding other bloodlines of the same stock is even harder. For instance one of my newer rare additions is a very old breed but it took me nearly two years to find anyone who would sell me chicks. And I am still looking for some alternate bloodlines. Luckily these all are very healthy so the breeder must have outsourced elsewhere. But I still need to add some other lines in the next couple years.
I'm not a backyard breeder per say. I hatch thousands of chicks every year. But each year I hatch for myself and either give away, sell, or cull birds that aren't up to my standards. This also helps me see how each breed in general is producing. I try to sell only the best and my reputation as a breeder depends on that.

 

[GaryDean26]

How many do you grow past 6 months old? How many past 12 months?

 

[Sylvester017]

Don't know about this, afaik the breed has been around in the Netherlands since at least the end of the 19th century. You might be mixing them up with the bantam form, that almost went extinct before it was picked up again.

I've read so many different stories about the Breda origins and not all the histories match each other. Apparently the Colonial Breda were called something different like Guilderlands or Guilders or whatever and went extinct as a landrace type of USA farm bird. Only the Dominique survived as an original Colonial breed and even the Doms were a landrace type with some having straight combs and some having rose combs -- it took 20th Century fanciers to perfect the Doms of today. Later the Netherlands "recreated" the Guilder breed with no historical record of the original bird's appearance and came up with the current Breda. Whatever the Breda's history, I adore the current ones we have in the USA right now. The Dutch didn't just create a lovely unique appearance but a bird that could tolerate the cold, layed well, had a non-combative flock temperament, and could be a family-friendly docile pet. Although Breda don't like to lay eggs in our hot SoCalif climate they do lay well during our winter months; they also have tolerated our heatwaves because they are lighterweight birds and not heavily under-downed like Brahma, Cochins, Orpingtons, Ameraucana, etc, which suffer in our climate conditions.