Calcium help & food

[ChickenCanoe]

Reptile calcium should be calcium, just like other sources. The question is whether your birds need the extra calcium and how best to give it.
If it is a powder, you could just add it to their oyster shell or other calcium carbonate sources you provide on the side for them to consume at will.

You just don't want to give extra calcium in a way that they can't avoid consuming it or that will upset the balance of calcium to phosphorus.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I was rummaging through my pantry one day and found a box of Cream of Wheat cereal that was hiding behind the pasta. The label says it has 20% of a person's daily requirement for calcium without milk. I am not what you would call a math genius but I kinda figured that if 3 tablespoons of that stuff gives creatures a LOT bigger than chickens 20% what must the percentage be for those little guys? So I've been adding the Cream of Wheat to her feed. At first she tossed the food around to avoid the cereal, but now she eats it like it's not even in there. Between the cereal and the gazillions of snails she eats (I propagate succulents to make custom arrangements so I have thousands of plants and pots all over the place, and the snails have met their match!) I think she is probably getting a decent amount of her daily requirement. And if the amount of calcium she gets has anything to do with how many eggs she lays, well, she hasn't missed a day laying an egg since she started. 

A person’s stomach is much bigger than a chicken’s crop. It’s not what is in one bite, it’s how much total calcium, protein, fats, fiber, and other nutrients they eat in a day. Even daily intake of a certain volume isn’t all that critical, it’s what they average over a few days. Percent in one bite doesn’t mean much of anything.

I don’t know what else is in that calcium for reptiles, whether there is a problem or not with the other ingredients. I doubt there would be any but I don’t know for sure. I don’t know how easily absorbed that form of calcium is, that can vary depending on its chemical form. Personally I’d look at the list of ingredients and use it if no red flags came up.

In my opinion, many people love to overthink calcium. There are many possible ways a hen can be getting calcium, some from what we feed them and some from their environment. The simple test is to look at the egg shells. If the egg shells are hard enough, they are getting enough calcium. If they are getting enough calcium, keep doing what you are doing.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Yup, folks do over do calcium. 1% by weight is all a bird need growing and if not laying. That is supplied in all feeds. Layer feed is 3% calcium, to be used only for those laying eggs. To me that is still too much as they get calcium form environment, bugs, etc. If it takes two or three whacks on the side of bowl to crack the egg then it's too much calcium. Back in the day when I fed layer the egg shell was too thick as my birds free ranged and were getting a supply naturally. On the flip side new layers will often have thin shells. It's natural for them to do so until laying regularly for a month but folks mistake that as not enough calcium then add more. In reality it doesn't take much. We feed an all flock that is 1% calcium. I'm lucky if I give a handfull of oyster shell tossed on the ground once a week to 11 layers. Usually it's more like 2 weeks or more....Honestly, that's all they are needing. On occasion I'll note thin shells and try to get back to regiment of handful a week but usually two handfuls every 2 to 3 weeks.

 

[donrae]

% of human RDA can't be accurately translated to % calcium content in a foodstuff. Most grains are well under 1% calcium. Wheat is very low in calcium. Cream of Wheat is wheat.

There have been several studies of snail shells as a calcium supplement.
http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/9/houn24162.htm

While I totally agree with pretty much all you're saying, just pointing out that Cream of Wheat cereal has calcium carbonate as the second ingredient.

*off to look at the snail shell link*

 

[lazy gardener]

Quote: A common quoted old wives tale stated that chickens can't absorb calcium from egg shells, while they can absorb calcium from oyster shell. A study debunked that myth, finding that chickens can equally well absorb calcium from either source. As MB states, egg shell is good, but it's not likely that you will get enough to meet the needs of your flock if you are simply feeding your egg shells back to your birds.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

While I totally agree with pretty much all you're saying, just pointing out that Cream of Wheat cereal has calcium carbonate as the second ingredient.

*off to look at the snail shell link*

I don't see CaCO3 as an added ingredient. There is calcium carbonate in the wheat itself.

Ingredients of original cream of wheat.
WHEAT FARINA, SALT, PARTIALLY DEFATTED WHEAT GERM, GUAR GUM, NATURAL FLAVOR, BHT (TO PRESERVE FRESHNESS).
Ingredients of quick cream of wheat.
WHEAT FARINA, PARTIALLY DEFATTED WHEAT GERM, PAPAIN (ENZYME FOR QUICKER COOKING).

 

[ChickenCanoe]

A common quoted old wives tale stated that chickens can't absorb calcium from egg shells, while they can absorb calcium from oyster shell. A study debunked that myth, finding that chickens can equally well absorb calcium from either source. As MB states, egg shell is good, but it's not likely that you will get enough to meet the needs of your flock if you are simply feeding your egg shells back to your birds.

Agreed. I just posted the following in another thread.

"There's nothing wrong with the egg shells. I sometimes dry and grind them and mix with the oyster shell.
Both are primarily calcium carbonate (CaCO3). When consumed, they react with the acidity in the proventriculus and are absorbed as calcium and carbon in the small intestine. Then, in the shell gland they are reformulated into CaCO3.
The advantage of OS over egg shells is that the larger particles spend more time in the upper digestive tract and then make contact with the calcium absorption sites in the intestine at night when the egg is usually in the shell gland."

 

[donrae]

That's odd, mine has it. It's name brand Cream of Wheat. Ingredients are Wheat farina, calcium carbonate, defatted wheat germ, disodium phospahte, ferric orthophosphate, niacinamide, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid.

Oh, and of course it's labelled with the allergy warning that it contains....you guessed it.....wheat!

Maybe what I bought was an "extra fortified" type? I honestly didn't pay attention when purchasing it. I had a kiddo asking for Cream of Wheat, the box went in the cart.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

That's odd, mine has it. It's name brand Cream of Wheat. Ingredients are Wheat farina, calcium carbonate, defatted wheat germ, disodium phospahte, ferric orthophosphate, niacinamide, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid.

Oh, and of course it's labelled with the allergy warning that it contains....you guessed it.....wheat!

Maybe what I bought was an "extra fortified" type? I honestly didn't pay attention when purchasing it. I had a kiddo asking for Cream of Wheat, the box went in the cart.

I got that off of the Cream of Wheat dot com website. You can click on each variety for a list of ingredients.

http://www.creamofwheat.com/blog/post-detail/nutritional-info
I didn't see CaCO3 as an ingredient but it is listed first in mineral content.

 

[NewRenoNv]

So my girls have feed with Oystershell in it and extra Oystershell on the side for free ranging but their shells still are very thin and every once in a while soft they have been laying regular for 4 months what would you do?