Caponizing

[Minniechickmama]

I am going to try caponizing for the first time this year since I am going to have way too many cockerels to be keeping them around.
I want to ask those who have done this before,
How long to get a capon to a good enough size to butcher, dressing out around 6-pounds? I know the purebreds just don't put on the meat by the time I need to get rid of them, so I want to find out how long I can expect them to take.
Also, I am sure it says in the book I ordered, but just asking experienced people too, at what age do you caponize them?
Thanks.

 

[KatyTheChickenLady]

wow that guy is aptly named.

 

[Minniechickmama]

I understand that caponizing is not for everyone. Everyone has their own reasons.
I am a small hatchery. I prefer to sell my birds as chicks as straight run to get rid of unwanted males that way. This year, I am looking at close to 200 extra males I will not be able to sell until they are big enough to eat. I lose money that way. I hate to just kill a little chick that is healthy just because I have too many, and because I need to grow enough to find the best ones to keep for the following breeding season.
The other reason for trying this isn't all because of the length of time it takes to grow decent sized eating birds when they are purebreds, but because once a cockerel reaches sexual maturity, it emits hormones into the meat that makes it takes less desirable to me and my family. I would rather take my obvious male culls and try caponizing to have a more desirable tasting bird.
I promise, I am going to take care and inflict as little pain on these little guys as necessary to get the job done.
FYI, as I have seen it, most livestock that is castrated is not put under or sedated in any way when they do the deed. This is actually less invasive that say castrating a pig.
The other alternative would be for me to raise them big enough to pick my best then chop the heads off the rest and put them in the compost. So, which do you think is a better way to treat them. I prefer to make use of what I have that just throw them away.
Just sayin'

 

[bluere11e]

I don't know, I guess I don't understand the point of caponizing. Does it really make them get that much bigger, and that much faster? Am I correct in that you don't do any kind of sedative or anything before doing this? I am honestly not trying to be rude or cause drama, I raise meat birds and other animals myself, I just can't imagine doing major surgery on an animal that is wide awake and feeling everything.

I usually look at videos of things I am intrigued by on YouTube.. I pulled up a video of someone caponizing a young roo.. They didn't have the proper equipment and it was obvious the little roo was feeling a LOT of pain. I am a carnivore. I LOVE MEAT.. I process my own birds and rabbits and have no problems dispatching a marauding predator or hunting feral pigs. I have a problem with prolonging pain an in any animal. Just because we eat them ,doesn't mean we shouldn't treat them with the respect and a pain free life or death as well.
I did look at a few more and all of the ones that I saw had no anesthesia used. All of the roos in all of the videos show extreme pain and distress... Because I don't have access to Isoflorane, halothane, ethrane, ether, or anything that will temporary knock a roo out. I have decided that, although I was considering caponizing some roos, that I will not subject any animal to that kind of pain, so I can have tastier meat.. I'll do just fine with my fat little meaties.. I wish there was n easier way

 

[cutechick2010]

I have not watched videos of a bird being caponized, I will do so once my kids have gone to bed in the name of objective-ness. (If that is even a word? LOL). I have eaten mature roosters before, I guess I never noticed any flavor that was much different than the 10-12 week old Cornish Xs I have done.
Like I said, I have not watched it being done, just read descriptions. But having processed enough chickens to know how deep inside the testicles are, and knowing that you have to use a rib spreader, etc. to do the surgery, I just can't imagine how it could be anything other than INCREDIBLY painful.
You are right that male pigs, cattle, goats etc are not generally given meds for castration. Where I find it different is that for one thing, all of these animals have their testicles on the outside of their bodies, no surgery just to get to them. I have banded young male goats, they typically have very little reaction and don't seem to feel it very much. They have gone back to playing normally within a couple of minutes of the band being put on, I am assuming they go numb quickly. I have also had a pig done by the cutting method, and the vet turned him upside down and had the cuts made and the testicles removed in literally about four seconds. Also, with the pigs and the steers, one of the big reasons for castrating is of course personal safety. If I felt secure that a pig or steer I was raising could never get out of it's pen, or would not become aggressive before butchering time, I wouldn't do that to them either.
I decided to start raising my own meat animals partly because I feel the meat is healthier, but another very big part of it was that I want to know my food was raised and killed in the most humane, stress free way possible. Factory farming is cruel, plain and simple, and I didn't want to perpetuate it.

I hate to just kill a little chick that is healthy just because I have too many, and because I need to grow enough to find the best ones to keep for the following breeding season.
The other reason for trying this isn't all because of the length of time it takes to grow decent sized eating birds when they are purebreds, but because once a cockerel reaches sexual maturity, it emits hormones into the meat that makes it takes less desirable to me and my family. I would rather take my obvious male culls and try caponizing to have a more desirable tasting bird.
I promise, I am going to take care and inflict as little pain on these little guys as necessary to get the job done.
FYI, as I have seen it, most livestock that is castrated is not put under or sedated in any way when they do the deed. This is actually less invasive that say castrating a pig.
The other alternative would be for me to raise them big enough to pick my best then chop the heads off the rest and put them in the compost. So, which do you think is a better way to treat them. I prefer to make use of what I have that just throw them away.
Just sayin'

 

[partsRheavy]

I've found the best way to learn about caponizing is to use Google Books and read the literature from the early 1900's, which is largely in the public domain. A couple authors of interest are George Pilling, S. K. Burdin, and George Beouy.

It was done in ancient Rome and in China and was done a lot in medieval and renaissance Europe. There weren't any CornishX then! It is still practiced and accepted in France, where the capons (chapon) are often raised free-range using traditional methods. http://www.chaponnage.fr/Chaponnage.html

It's pretty rare in the US these days and the gourmet market has recently lost Wapsie Produce in Iowa, which used to the biggest commercial capon producer in the US. (business closed and processing plant was torn down last month). I'll post the links if anyone's interested.

The biggest risk to the bird is cutting the artery that lies "back" of the testicle. The sensation of pain in chickens is different than in mammals. One of the old-timers noted that a chicken freaks out when she's just being picked up to be moved to the henhouse or whatever but that a cockerel shows no response when the peritoneum (membrane covering intestines) is cut.

It's less rough on the bird when the person doing it is experienced. The old-time authors presented it as a trade-off of argumentative, scrapping roo's (with tough meat) vs. quiet capons with good meat. I've never eaten a capon, but on-the-hoof they are really sweet chickens that like to just hang out and enjoy the sunshine (before it gets %^&* hot).

I guarantee there's a learning curve!! This is like PoSc 305 (where PoultryScience 101 is raising chicks and collecting eggs and keeping raccoons out and PoSc 205 might be where chicken math hits and you're building a 2nd coop and some meatie pens).

It's _certainly_ NOT like brooding baby chicks where you can bring some little cuties home, keep 'em warm and fed and watered and they will probably survive if you take care of them _at all_ and listen to their peeping to see if they're hot or cold...... Nevertheless, a lot of ppl have problems even just rearing little fuzzies.....if someone can't take care of chicks they have no business trying this.

The problem is when so many of the little cuties develop little combs, macho stances, and that tell-tale roo stinkeye around 8-9 weeks......

The revival of traditional breeds that put on flesh more slowly than CornishX but range and survive better has brought this issue to the forefront.

In the old days in the big chicken-raising areas around Philadelphia and New York, good fast caponizers with low mortality rates would visit farms for a modest fee during late spring and summer. The farmers would get high prices for the capons during the holiday season.

The 1900-era literature I've seen indicates that capons will possibly brood chicks, but NOT eggs. Some of the sources recoommended waiting until the chicks were 2 weeks old before giving them to the capon. Once again, Google Books is your friend.....

 

[Minniechickmama]

Well, I did it.
I had 3 to do, decided one was going to live as a cockerel to see what he will be when he gets bigger. If he has his father's attitude, he is going to be a short-lived cockerel.

Anyway, I couldn't take pictures this time. I need to make a board with the slots and hooks and such. I used my adjustable dog grooming table and it was still a pain in the neck, literally.
Results, I believe #1 is a pullet. If it is not, it is a lucky cockerel. I could see/find testes on the left side, so I closed and moved on.
#2 an EE/Blue Orp cross (a lovely bird) took a while, but I think all is good.
Both of those are just fine and eating in the cage. They are tired and stressed, no doubt. I stitched them rather than leaving them open. I used quilting thread and I covered the whole site with triple antibiotic ointment before stitching. it make the needle going in easier and the thread slide through better. I have some hooked needles that are working quite well for that.
#3 didn't fair so well. I am sad too because he is my secret meat project. Okay, not a secret, a Buckeye/Dark Cornish cross. I have a lot of them coming, so I am sure I will get better at this.
I think I knicked his artery that I read is right there by the left teste. They don't come out as easy as I thought they would, it took some work and the first one I took out broke in two when I was using the pointy ended thingy to try to get under it and try to lift it a little. The scoop end is too big. Once I get it in, I can't see anything. Maybe I should grow one finger nail long enough to notch it. NOT! That would be dangerous.

I will have more on Monday or Tuesday. I think if I don't have to put them off so much that it will go easier. I pulled food, and then had to feed them again because it was going to be too long before I could get to them (life as a mom gets in the way a bit lately.)

I think I have about 8-10 for next time, so I will have to set more time aside for that, and improve my set up.

So, there it is. I will try to take pictures next time, maybe set up a tri pod.

Question for you, Jeff, when there is a lot of blood clotting in the cavity, is that the artery? If so, it happened on the first side. I kept going. I figured that if I did do that, there was no saving it and practice could do me good.
Oh, also want to mention, the spreaders sucked! They don't go deep enough to hold. They kept slipping on me. I would think they would curve the flanged part to hook onto the rib. I may try to bend them a little myself to work better. Got any suggestion on tools?

All in all, I think it was successful.

 

[Zootopia]

You have a small business, right? Me too, mostly eggs, some chicks and spring meat birds. I want to hatch my own replacement layers and I want to replace the CRX. I think the New Hampshire X will be a good dual purpose and I'm willing to do this cause I need them to be able to free range with the girls without harassing them. This way I can also choose when to do the butchering as I need them. They get to live a nice quiet, pampered life till the dinner bell instead of being culled as soon as I figure out they are roos. The dogs will be disappointed, but hey, they still get any small or dirty eggs.
I do understand the whole surgery without anesthesia thing. Be real people, no one is going to let a layman have the stuff and taking the birds to the Vet is not practical, most Vets wouldn't want to do it, many wouldn't even know how.

I can visualize in my head how you would do both from the left side of the bird, but I don't know the inside of the actual chicken to know would need to be cut and what wouldn't. I am thinking about looking for my MIL's old magnifying lamp to do this. I already where glass for my not young eyes, and I still had trouble really seeing inside.
I think my next batch will be Tuesday or Wednesday. There are more of them from that hatch.
Thanks for the thread. I had already read a couple of them on here, I just hadn't seen where it said how long it takes to grow them out, hence the reason for the post. I am not trying to re-invent the post on this topic. There are a lot of good reasons for doing this. It is amazing to see how the bird will just go into sort of a trance/sleep mode, but one was actually preening a bit during the whole thing. I am just trying to make good use of the extras. It seems a lot better than killing them at 2-3 weeks old knowing they are extra. I cannot have 1000 cockerels in my yard all fighting, much less the feed for that many! I have had a hard enough time getting rid of 50 extras that have reached 6-8 months of age.
Anyway, I will not go into a rant.

 

[Minniechickmama]

I am doing a lot of my Buckeye/Dark Cornish crosses. The boys are turning into monsters! as in big boys, not nasty.
But I am also doing others as I see as culls from breeding.
I am working more on the breeding end of this. The egg sales for eating are in addition to for the extras. The meat birds are going to be my extras turned capon and those I decide to cull out as I see them mature and select my breeders.
No more CRX freaks here.

 

[Minniechickmama]

I went on eBay to find what I have now. I suppose the caponizing tools you can get might also work with a little modifying.
The ones I just did, that I feel were a better size to do that the ones I tried previously, are 8-weeks old. I think they are just too small at 4 or 5 weeks.