Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Zanna]

I've never had one of my layer flocks to ever have vent gleet. From what I understand, this is a fungal/yeast infection and probably due to excessive wet feces and/or an imbalance of growth in the environment of the coop/soils/bedding? I don't know that I've ever known of regular roosters having a messy butt and only had the occasional hen have mess there after eating watermelon or other such fresh veggies in sudden and mass amounts.

I'd be looking at why this bird had wet/messy stool and why it consequently grew fungus on his feathers and skin. The ACV can't hurt at all but I'd also be looking at your bedding and the soil in your run. ACV isn't a cure all and only really works if it is used in combination with sound husbandry practices. Sounds like you have an imbalance of bacterial/fungal growth in the environment of your flock and that needs rectified. Plenty of air, drier bedding, plenty of sunlight, the proper diet, no overcrowding(very important), good dusting areas...all of these things can help you keep a proper balance of microbes in the flock environment.

The first flock of meaties I ever had looked like they had started to grow some vent gleet at the time of butchering..not much but still a little present in the feathers around the vent. I put that down to excessive, too liquid stool(typical for meaties) and bedding down in that same stool each night instead of roosting, even though they were free ranged. I also noticed this batch of meaties didn't dust as regularly as my layer flock kept in the same environment.

The second batch of meaties were given UP/ACV in the water and fed fermented feeds, which changed their sloppy wet feces into healthy, firm droppings, and were given "meaty friendly" roosts, given adequate dusting areas they didn't have to share with bossy layer hens, and there was no sign of vent gleet upon butchering, even though I had way more meaties in that batch than I had in the previous one.

I bet if you look into getting some good cultures into their diet, via the mother vinegar or fermented foods, look to having dry bedding underfoot and proper ventilation in the coop environment, particularly during roosting times, and eliminate any overcrowding, you may see a change there. I've noticed that most of a bird's grooming takes place on the roost, so adequate space between birds is imperative to encourage this behavior...a well-groomed bird has oils distributed well into the feathers around the vent that protects against excessive moisture exposure from feces.

Anyone else have any insight into vent gleet and the causes? I always look for the cause first instead of the cure...you can throw a pound of cure in there but unless you get rid of the cause, you won't manage a thing.

Not an OT, been raising chickens for 5 years but I do have some past experience with vent gleet. In my research, a common cause is moldy feed and it is an internal fungal/yeast infection. Now, on that note, my first two years into chickens I had 3, approx. 4 month old birds with this problem. The birds were raised in the exact same environment as all the others, fed the same, ACV in their water since hatch, free-ranging with 25 - 60 other birds at any given time and 24/7 access to a large, dry coop with plenty of roosting space. These first two years I had hatchery production reds and White leghorns for egg layers plus some "special" birds as I was wanting to breed show quality birds and was trying a few different breeds to figure out which ones I wanted to focus on. The 3 birds that had vent gleet all were different breeds of these "special" birds that I hatched from eggs from private breeders and I had a lot of $ and time invested in them so wanted nothing more than to save them. Tried all remedies on the internet I could find....... Molasses in water to flush their system, epsom salts in water to flush their system, Vagisil you know where, etc., etc. The first two birds after all the treatments gradually got weaker, thin, stopped eating and were culled. Unfortunately in my effort to "fix" them they suffered for it. The third bird, at the first sign (smell!!!) was culled immediately. This experience made me smarter/wiser, cull for the poor birds sake. Lesson learned. Have not seen the problem again and I am at the point where I can breed my own birds now and only the hardy made it this far..............

 

[Beekissed]

Wonder why anyone would advise giving molasses and epsom salts, as both would create more diarrhea for the birds, causing more stripping of normal bowel flora and a subsequent overgrowth of bad flora in the bowels? When humans have an overgrowth of protozoa in the bowels(usually as a side effect of broad spectrum antibiotic usage), they give an anti-protozoal and advise to eat fermented, cultured foods such as yogurt to reculture the bowel with healthy flora.

There is a theory that CX are born with this problem due to the parents being highly medicated in order to live in crowded hatchery conditions, hence the stinking, yellow and liquid feces that are hallmark to the CX.

 

[Zanna]

Wonder why anyone would advise giving molasses and epsom salts, as both would create more diarrhea for the birds, causing more stripping of normal bowel flora and a subsequent overgrowth of bad flora in the bowels? When humans have an overgrowth of protozoa in the bowels(usually as a side effect of broad spectrum antibiotic usage), they give an anti-protozoal and advise to eat fermented, cultured foods such as yogurt to reculture the bowel with healthy flora.

There is a theory that CX are born with this problem due to the parents being highly medicated in order to live in crowded hatchery conditions, hence the stinking, yellow and liquid feces that are hallmark to the CX.

The "supposed" reasoning was to flush their systems first, then feed yogurt/probiotic to get their system back on track.............. Of course, a gullible newbie like me was willing to try anything at first, live and learn! Keep setting us straight OT's and thanks so much Bee for starting and helping to keep this thread going. Invaluable!!!!

 

[Beekissed]

I'm glad you like it!

That flushing just hastened the death, I imagine. Dehydration from loss of electrolytes, lack of nutrient absorption due to the imbalance of gut flora, etc.

Believe it or not, some doctors have the same idea when people have the flu bug...says to let them keep having diarrhea to "flush" the virus out of the system. Hooey! That theory has killed more old folks in nursing homes than you can shake a stick at!

 

[loanwizard]

Wonder why anyone would advise giving molasses and epsom salts, as both would create more diarrhea for the birds, causing more stripping of normal bowel flora and a subsequent overgrowth of bad flora in the bowels? When humans have an overgrowth of protozoa in the bowels(usually as a side effect of broad spectrum antibiotic usage), they give an anti-protozoal and advise to eat fermented, cultured foods such as yogurt to reculture the bowel with healthy flora.

There is a theory that CX are born with this problem due to the parents being highly medicated in order to live in crowded hatchery conditions, hence the stinking, yellow and liquid feces that are hallmark to the CX.

I started to read that.... 3 times... crossed my eyes.... Please put the PHD down and talk normal Julie.... like an OT.

 

[stonykill]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekissed

Wonder why anyone would advise giving molasses and epsom salts, as both would create more diarrhea for the birds, causing more stripping of normal bowel flora and a subsequent overgrowth of bad flora in the bowels? When humans have an overgrowth of protozoa in the bowels(usually as a side effect of broad spectrum antibiotic usage), they give an anti-protozoal and advise to eat fermented, cultured foods such as yogurt to reculture the bowel with healthy flora.

There is a theory that CX are born with this problem due to the parents being highly medicated in order to live in crowded hatchery conditions, hence the stinking, yellow and liquid feces that are hallmark to the CX.

I started to read that.... 3 times... crossed my eyes.... Please put the PHD down and talk normal Julie.... like an OT.

it was spoken like an educated OT. I understood it completely

 

[Fred's Hens]

I started to read that.... 3 times... crossed my eyes.... Please put the PHD down and talk normal Julie.... like an OT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekissed

Wonder why anyone would advise giving molasses and epsom salts, as both would create more diarrhea for the birds, causing more stripping of normal bowel flora and a subsequent overgrowth of bad flora in the bowels? When humans have an overgrowth of protozoa in the bowels(usually as a side effect of broad spectrum antibiotic usage), they give an anti-protozoal and advise to eat fermented, cultured foods such as yogurt to reculture the bowel with healthy flora.

There is a theory that CX are born with this problem due to the parents being highly medicated in order to live in crowded hatchery conditions, hence the stinking, yellow and liquid feces that are hallmark to the CX.

it was spoken like an educated OT. I understood it completely

LOL. You just might surprised how many professional certificates, licenses, baccalaureate, graduate and post graduate degrees exists among us Old Timers.
We can talk 'most any way you wish, I reckon.

 

[stonykill]

LOL. You just might surprised how many professional certificates, licenses, baccalaureate, graduate and post graduate degrees exists among us Old Timers.
We can talk 'most any way you wish, I reckon.

 

[Achickenwrangler#1]

Please don't dumb it down on my account.

 

[Beekissed]

Thats a tuffy, LW. The health of the bowel~or the lack thereof, IMO, is the likely cause of gleet, though everything I've read on the subject says there is no absolute known cause. Here's as plain as I can state it:

We all have good and bad bacteria/yeast in our bowels. The goodies keep the baddies in balance. When you have excessive loose stool/diarrhea, these all can be stripped out, creating an intestine that doesn't have the needed goodies/baddies to digest food properly. Unfortunately, when they start to repopulate the bowel, the baddies have a quicker growth pattern, especially if there are no goodies to keep them in check.

The baddies cause a lot of problems when they are allowed to run rampant. They cause even more diarrhea, ulceration(holes) of the intestinal walls, infection of the skin around the vent(gleet), etc. When they get that bad, often it will take a special antibiotic to kill the baddies enough to let the goodies grow properly. These antibiotics are expensive and very harsh~sometimes they just create a baddie that is immune to their charms. Unfortunately, the antibiotics also kill any of the goodies that may have been trying to grow. It is advisable to follow the antibiotic usage with acidophilus, brewer's yeast, lactobacillus, yogurt, buttermilk, cottage cheese, etc.

The infection is said to be contagious but it really would only affect other mammals with imbalanced bacteria in their bowels(already in a weakened state and open to infection) or if the coop environment was such that it encouraged the growth of the baddies~damp, too acidic, no air flow, overcrowded.

See the importance of creating a balance in the animal and the environment to prevent the spread of contagion? Try to promote the growth of the goodies because they are valuable.

You can either bleach everything in sight and hope for the best and also kill off any affected animals~or~you can insure that, if something does affect one animal, that it cannot affect the others because they are too healthy, the coop environment is too healthy to support the baddie growth cycle, etc.

Keep in mind that when you bleach everything, the first thing that grows back...is the baddies..with a vengeance. You can't fix things with applications of disinfectant or dosing with meds or ACV....these might help temporarily but they are not a fix.


ETA: No PhD,here...just 20 years in a medical profession. Ya kinda get real familiar with the bowels in my field.