Chickens in Permaculture

[centrarchid]

I agree with Mrs. K. My birds have a lot of ground which is likely more productive with respect to the typical permaculture approach, yet feed or at least feed stuffs must be imported extensively, in part to keep birds from being overly interested in plantings.

 

[Lacy Blues]

It is a START. I don't even have that much and I doubt that I will ever be able to feed my birds strictly off the land. Getting part of it would be nice.

 

[aart]

'Permaculture' is a moving target for definition, and IMO can encompass many aspects of improving our use of the land.

Think it started in Australia because of the need for intensive water management...... evolved to creating a healthy soil bioculture that holds the water that falls on it reducing irrigation needs....which also greatly improved fertility without adding chemicals for growth maximization and onto cover cropping for water retention, more soil improvement and an environment for insect population to help with pest control - again sans chemical application.

Carefully rotating livestock can also be hugely beneficial to soil health....it goes on and on......that cycle of life. ;-)

Anything you can do to pay attention to and improve to soil health to support what we eat is a good idea IMO.

There's some fascinating documentation on the 'desertification' of land...and folks who have reversed that devastation around the world.

One recent book by a journalist,
The Soil Will Save Us by Kristin Ohlso
... tho the title is a bit over the top(rollseyes) gives a nice, wide overview of the concept and lots of examples she visited.

 

[shortgrass]

I agree with Mrs. K. My birds have a lot of ground which is likely more productive with respect to the typical permaculture approach, yet feed or at least feed stuffs must be imported extensively, in part to keep birds from being overly interested in plantings.

I can definitely see concern where there is a need for feed during those months when the buhs and local veg is going dormant or winter, like SD, hete in CO, our growing season can be aggravatingly short ... The need for most to outsource a supply of feed can be disappointing, but i guess being blessed with a big farm family with grain otions is nice. I have access to unlimited corn snd wheat all winter, but that's NOT what i want, and it doesnt even begin to cover the choojs' needs for nutrition.

Grain is grain. Hardly a diet for a chickrn. They need protein, vitamins, minerals, good fats... Permaculture helps me incorporate thing like Nettles, Comfrey, Amaranth, Alfalfa... Nice to have a haystack too lol .... Finding those covrr crops that can overwinter or leave seed on the ground enough to sustain them.... My ultimate goal would be literally a flock of 100+ on a rotating paddock system from hayfields, to corfields, to wheat after harvest, back to hayfield to winter.... Im too scared of the predators to fully incorporate it yet

 

[shortgrass]

'Permaculture' is a moving target for definition, and IMO can encompass many aspects of improving our use of the land. Think it started in Australia because of the need for intensive water management...... evolved to creating a healthy soil bioculture that holds the water that falls on it reducing irrigation needs....which also greatly improved fertility without adding chemicals for growth maximization and onto cover cropping for water retention, more soil improvement and an environment for insect population to help with pest control - again sans chemical application. Carefully rotating livestock can also be hugely beneficial to soil health....it goes on and on......that cycle of life. ;-) Anything you can do to pay attention to and improve to soil health to support what we eat is a good idea IMO. There's some fascinating documentation on the 'desertification' of land...and folks who have reversed that devastation around the world. One recent book by a journalist, The Soil Will Save Us by Kristin Ohlso ... tho the title is a bit over the top(rollseyes) gives a nice, wide overview of the concept and lots of examples she visited.

Absolutely! Ive watched how Australia has been able to go from desert 25 years of drought to using whatever means neccessary to save that previous water... And when water is the key to life, people tend to hoard it lol... I cant afford hoarding water, so being able to be prepared for drought by having everything working to full potential, i dont waste it. Soil is the key to not wasting water Have to use it while it's avaiable, ie, grow tons of wheat while its raining so harvest is over by dry season. Amaranth has become s huge benefit versus a huge setback because it can outgrow anything snd everything else, so while trying to unwrap it from combines, the thought crosses my mind, " we should just grow THIS. It takes no water and is better for livestock than the GMO wheat we're growing." Ahhhh permaculture I'll have to read that book

 

[centrarchid]

I can definitely see concern where there is a need for feed during those months when the buhs and local veg is going dormant or winter, like SD, hete in CO, our growing season can be aggravatingly short ... The need for most to outsource a supply of feed can be disappointing, but i guess being blessed with a big farm family with grain otions is nice. I have access to unlimited corn snd wheat all winter, but that's NOT what i want, and it doesnt even begin to cover the choojs' needs for nutrition.

Grain is grain. Hardly a diet for a chickrn. They need protein, vitamins, minerals, good fats... Permaculture helps me incorporate thing like Nettles, Comfrey, Amaranth, Alfalfa... Nice to have a haystack too lol .... Finding those covrr crops that can overwinter or leave seed on the ground enough to sustain them.... My ultimate goal would be literally a flock of 100+ on a rotating paddock system from hayfields, to corfields, to wheat after harvest, back to hayfield to winter.... Im too scared of the predators to fully incorporate it yet

I have had all the resources you mention in spades and additionally keep a breed that is decidedly more capable free-range. A key component is actual space where birds can get out and make up those protein requirements. As they do then energy can become periodically limiting making so grains and greens become important again. As the birds push out predator management becomes a greater challenge. I have done the 100+ and it has to be seasonal and coupled with some sort of confined and grain fed livestock. Birds in those numbers then begin tearing up the landscape. I am trying this now without the livestock and seeing that will need to be revisited.

 

[shortgrass]

I have had all the resources you mention in spades and additionally keep a breed that is decidedly more capable free-range. A key component is actual space where birds can get out and make up those protein requirements. As they do then energy can become periodically limiting making so grains and greens become important again. As the birds push out predator management becomes a greater challenge. I have done the 100+ and it has to be seasonal and coupled with some sort of confined and grain fed livestock. Birds in those numbers then begin tearing up the landscape. I am trying this now without the livestock and seeing that will need to be revisited.

That's exactly what i was wondering... If i rotated them with the cattle, then maybe they would be safer and graze alongside them; they get supplemental hay and cornstalks in winter but the chickens probably need something a little more substantial, like a winter forage? I'm trying out some rye,winter peas and buckwheat in the bar ditches and fence rows to see what performs well, but i'm looking for something that can leave a little more than the possibility of a noxious weed lol Albeit noxious weeds are good too, as long as it doesnt come back to bite me haha!

Those late winter protein requirements are where i'm lacking They need more energy to stay warm much less have to scavenge more... That's the kibd of input I am definitely gleening

 

[shortgrass]

Lacy Blues, you might have inadvertantly picked out my next breed The Andalusians are a beautiful breed! And BONUS, great free rangers!

I have Buttercups and Ancona for the free ranging... I'm wanting to replace my Wyandottes... Whay breeds do you work with Centrarchid?

 

[centrarchid]

Think about banking / stockpiling invertebrate prey during the winter months. A large amount persists frozen but hard for birds to get at when ground frozen. Deposits of organic materials like leaves can be setup to provide accessible forages during colder periods. They need to be spread out but not so as to get birds exposed to predators.

 

[centrarchid]

Lacy Blues, you might have inadvertantly picked out my next breed The Andalusians are a beautiful breed! And BONUS, great free rangers!

I have Buttercups and Ancona for the free ranging... I'm wanting to replace my Wyandottes... Whay breeds do you work with Centrarchid?

American Games and crosses involving them blow the doors off other all other breeds I am familiar with. Others may have historical reputation for free-range productivity but most are many generations from actual performance on such. Most have been maintained on the standard hatchery model.