Coccidios Not Responding to Corid or Sulmet

[seminolewind]

You vaccinate and quarantine. I do for 10 weeks, although they say 2 weeks is good. I'm overly worried. The thing is, if you don't vaccinate, they will die. The other thing is I have hatched chicks from my own hens and they had some kind of resistance built in.

You got your chicks/chickens from quite a few places, it would be easy for one place to have exposed birds. It's unfortunate that most vets do not even have the education about Marek's that we do. You have to send a bird to a state animal disease lab for a necropsy with the correct Dx.

It appears to me that your flock has Marek's and some are symptomatic, and some of your birds are being symptomatic of a secondary illness, like Coccidiosis, or any opportunistic infection. Due to what Marek's has done to their immune system.

My chickens all have names unless it hasn't "come to me" yet, like yours. It's a sad sad thing.
I would like to see the pictures. It's educational.

 

[Haunted55]

You vaccinate and quarantine. I do for 10 weeks, although they say 2 weeks is good. I'm overly worried. The thing is, if you don't vaccinate, they will die. The other thing is I have hatched chicks from my own hens and they had some kind of resistance built in.

You got your chicks/chickens from quite a few places, it would be easy for one place to have exposed birds. It's unfortunate that most vets do not even have the education about Marek's that we do. You have to send a bird to a state animal disease lab for a necropsy with the correct Dx.

It appears to me that your flock has Marek's and some are symptomatic, and some of your birds are being symptomatic of a secondary illness, like Coccidiosis, or any opportunistic infection. Due to what Marek's has done to their immune system.

My chickens all have names unless it hasn't "come to me" yet, like yours. It's a sad sad thing.
I would like to see the pictures. It's educational.

Seminolewind, I know where the chicks came from. TS told me they were vaccinated before I bought them and in June I found out they hadn't been. They were also the first to show symptoms.

When I finally was able to make contact with the people at Orono, through the animal Vet at Cornell, all of my paralyzed birds were gone. The one they had just died late Friday afternoon 9/21. Bagged her and put her in a fridge. Monday called the college and spent all day waiting for an snawer on whether to send her to the lab or not. The usual Vet had to leave for a few days and they would have to call someone in to do the necropsy. At 4:30 Monday afternoon, I got the call to send her. Tuesday morning I sent her overnight to the lab. The Vet necropsied her on the 27th. Timing is everything and unfortunately it didn't work for me. There wasn't much they could do by the time everything came together.

There is a thread right here on BYC where someone had to do their own necropsy. They posted some pictures of what they found as well. I really can't remember what the thread was called and will do a search to see if I saved the link.

Here are a couple of my links; http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewtopic.php?t=1318

http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/avian-atlas/search/disease

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/203602.htm

 

[CluckyCharms]

I have absolutely no idea what is taking the lives of what is seemingly...practically your entire flock (or close to it). I just wanted to give my condolences on your losses, I'm sure this is very difficult and frustrating for you. I'm sorry you're going through this.

 

[Haunted55]

I have absolutely no idea what is taking the lives of what is seemingly...practically your entire flock (or close to it). I just wanted to give my condolences on your losses, I'm sure this is very difficult and frustrating for you. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Thank-you. I am not the only one having these problems, probably just the one with the biggest mouth? Funny, my father had a saying that used to drive me nuts when I was younger, "It's all over but for the screaming and yelling". Now I understand. What else is left at this point?

All I can do now is watch and hopefully learn from what I am seeing, talking to others who have been going through this a lot longer than myself and share whatever I do learn. Most important of all, tell others to vaccinate their flock. Make sure any birds you get have documentation that they were given the vaccine at hatch. Is it fool proof? Nope but it's all we have .

 

[centrarchid]

Haunted55,

Have you confirmed control of coccidia after treatments with Corid and Sulmet? By confirmed I mean looked at feces after treatment. That would get back to original concern that treatments were not effective.


Also, what are you feeding birds?

 

[seminolewind]

Centrarchid has a point. After my three 4 month olds died overnight with no symptoms until they were dead, I put everyone on Corrid and Tylan. I think that saved the rest. They were all vaccinated, but being Marek's exposed, they died of opportunistic bacteria, namely coccidiosis and or an infection that swelled up their eye and the side of their face. From now on, if someone even looks sideways at me, I treat them with Corrid and either Tylan or Penicillin injections.

Wildwolf1 is right about not dying in clusters. But if there are opportunistic bacteria involved, it will be clusters. As with immune deficient humans, chickens will also pick up yeast/fungal infections as well, like Aspergillus-opportunistic as well. It may be a good idea to treat everyone with an antibiotic and Corrid (some PO antibiotics are not compatable with Corrid in the water). There's also Sulfadimethoxine. And LS-50, PO, or penicillin injections for a week. Then after, a good vitamin, electrolyte, and probiotic. You may have to treat some again. These bacteria are tough. But you might eliminate alot of deaths that way

 

[Haunted55]

Haunted55,

Have you confirmed control of coccidia after treatments with Corid and Sulmet? By confirmed I mean looked at feces after treatment. That would get back to original concern that treatments were not effective.


Also, what are you feeding birds?

No I don't believe the Corid or the Sulmet worked in all of the birds. Some of them after the Sulmet got better. Green and white poops and comb cme back nice and red. That's all the confirmation I have, just visual and lack of symptoms. the ones that didn't respond to the sulmet, Corid or the Duramycin are now dead. These last two were it. I have a couple who are a little pale in the comb but this isn't all the time. They seem to be fighting whatever it is. The birds I have left have heft to them as well. They are no where near where they should be, believe me, but they seem to be coming.

Right now all of the survivors of the purchased birds are getting Dumor 20%. My feed options here are rather slim.

Centrarchid has a point. After my three 4 month olds died overnight with no symptoms until they were dead, I put everyone on Corrid and Tylan. I think that saved the rest. They were all vaccinated, but being Marek's exposed, they died of opportunistic bacteria, namely coccidiosis and or an infection that swelled up their eye and the side of their face. From now on, if someone even looks sideways at me, I treat them with Corrid and either Tylan or Penicillin injections.

Wildwolf1 is right about not dying in clusters. But if there are opportunistic bacteria involved, it will be clusters. As with immune deficient humans, chickens will also pick up yeast/fungal infections as well, like Aspergillus-opportunistic as well. It may be a good idea to treat everyone with an antibiotic and Corrid (some PO antibiotics are not compatable with Corrid in the water). There's also Sulfadimethoxine. And LS-50, PO, or penicillin injections for a week. Then after, a good vitamin, electrolyte, and probiotic. You may have to treat some again. These bacteria are tough. But you might eliminate alot of deaths that way

What is a PO antibiotic? No idea what that is. If I could get over my fear of needles I would love to do the pencillin injections. I am really afraid of the sulfa drugs. I read somewhere that these can be a real problem later on because they never clear the system. I have an allergy to human sulfa drugs. Don't know if it's the binder they use or the sulfa itself. I'll have to look up the book I read it in before I can say exactly which drug it is. I have Di-Methox here already but I think this is the bad one. I'm talking through my hat until I find the book and can quote chapter and verse.

I m hoping they get the necropsy report out to me SOON! The Vet was going to test and make sure what kind of cocci I am dealing with and the best course of treatment.

 

[Haunted55]

Centrarchid has a point. After my three 4 month olds died overnight with no symptoms until they were dead, I put everyone on Corrid and Tylan. I think that saved the rest. They were all vaccinated, but being Marek's exposed, they died of opportunistic bacteria, namely coccidiosis and or an infection that swelled up their eye and the side of their face. From now on, if someone even looks sideways at me, I treat them with Corrid and either Tylan or Penicillin injections.

Wildwolf1 is right about not dying in clusters. But if there are opportunistic bacteria involved, it will be clusters. As with immune deficient humans, chickens will also pick up yeast/fungal infections as well, like Aspergillus-opportunistic as well. It may be a good idea to treat everyone with an antibiotic and Corrid (some PO antibiotics are not compatable with Corrid in the water). There's also Sulfadimethoxine. And LS-50, PO, or penicillin injections for a week. Then after, a good vitamin, electrolyte, and probiotic. You may have to treat some again. These bacteria are tough. But you might eliminate alot of deaths that way

Cowcreekgeek gave me a bunch of links to follow and one of them, Mercks intro to coccidios, has a list of the different form of cocci..I think the one below is the one the Vet was describing to me.

E necatrix produces major lesions in the anterior and middle portions of the small intestine. Small white spots, usually intermingled with rounded, bright- or dull-red spots of various sizes, can be seen on the serosal surface. The white spots are diagnostic for E necatrix if clumps of large schizonts can be demonstrated microscopically. In severe cases, the intestinal wall is thickened, and the infected area dilated to 2-2.5 times the normal diameter. The lumen may be filled with blood, mucus, and fluid. Fluid loss may result in marked dehydration. Although the damage is in the small intestine, the sexual phase of the life cycle is completed in the ceca. Oocysts of E necatrix are found only in the ceca. Due to concurrent infections, oocysts of other species may be found in the area of major lesions, misleading the diagnostician.

Nitrobenzamides (eg, dinitolmide) exert their greatest coccidiostatic activity against the asexual stages. Efficacy is limited to E tenella and E necatrix unless combined with other products.

What name brand would this drug be? I'm looking through Jeffers catalog right now and can't find it.

Oh and I was wrong about the sulfa drugs. It was erythromycin drugs that you never want to use. Your eggs, meat will be tainted forever if you do.

 

[galanie]

Just curious. What type of bedding do they have in the coop?

 

[Haunted55]

Just curious. What type of bedding do they have in the coop?

For these guys, pine shavings. The others have sand.