Colorado

[suncatcher]

Oops, wrong one....

 

[techpeak]

I am pretty sure Duramycin is approved, the package I have lists dosages and withdrawal for poultry. I am allergic to Penicillin and its derivatives, as well as Sulfa and Shellfish. If I had to, I would use Duramycin, follow the guidelines, and have no worries. Bear in mind, almost every egg at the grocery store is laid by a hen treated with antibiotics in far greater amounts than you and I would ever consider.

Okay, finally catching up, been crazy around here.

This is the actual warning label on Duramycin:

"Warning
Do not slaughter birds or swine for food within 4 days of treatment or calves within 5 days of treatment. A withdrawal period has not been established for this product in pre-ruminating calves. Do not use in calves to be processed for veal . Not for use in turkeys or chickens producing eggs for human consumption. Do not use for more than 5 consecutive days in swine and calves, or 14 consecutive days in birds."

I hope no one takes this as me being rude or condescending, I just want to make sure we all realize what we need to be safe for the purposes of our consumers (mine are my neighbors

).

And a quick note on antibiotics in big commercial laying establishments, they may use them when the chicks are very young (this is allowed) and they may use them at very low levels to "promote growth". Those levels don't actually kill anything, they just generate antibiotic resistant bacteria, and hence, why so many of us have moved to raising our own eggs!

There is a website www.farad.org. Select to search VetGRAM, then select "Approved Species" and "Chickens, all use classes" (not "Chickens - all approvals" which will give you roosters and meat birds). You will get a list of drugs that can be used on ALL classes of chickens (including layers), but when you click on "View" next to a drug, you will find many of them say "for use in 1-3 day old chicks only".

Really sucks because I just lost a bird to pneumonia and some sort of tapeworm that comes from dragonflies (crazy) and I'd like to be able to treat my other girls if they show similar signs.

 

[suncatcher]

Quote: Yikes! Scary! You might want to look to see if there is any all natural remedy you can use.

 

[techpeak]

If I can put on my grouchy hat for a moment -
I like the idea here, but the drug companies would not voluntarily do this. And even if they did I would not trust the results considering than they could negatively affect revenue. We should all be wise enough to know that dollars will win out over decency any day.

That said I'm sure there have been some enterprising folks who have done studies on this. Knowing nothing about how this works I assume that all you'd need are some chickens, some drugs, and a lab you can send eggs to.

Actually, it takes a lot to do it. You have to get chickens free of pretty much every disease, every parasite; give the drugs at different amounts, by different methods (i.e., oral, injection); collect, ID, and test the eggs at several different stages... and so on, and so forth. However, I think they would be willing to do it because there is a financial gain. With basically no antibiotics or dewormers currently approved for laying hens, and the HUGE surge in backyard flocks, there is a big need developing. As long as it is a product that the company still has under patent, or that is a unique formula, the company would be able to market that drug to veterinarians, feed stores, and small flock owners.

Gee, I think I just nominated myself to see if I can make this happen. I'm tired of not having good, safe pharmaceuticals for my girls and my egg buyers.

 

[techpeak]

Yikes! Scary! You might want to look to see if there is any all natural remedy you can use.

No kidding! I guess we all know that good care, good feed, good housing, are all the best ways to have a healthy flock, but dragonflies?! Really?! I can't believe she got tapeworms from dragonflies!

 

[suncatcher]

Quote: That is bizarre! How did you find that out?

ETA, Some flock owners swear by garlic added to their flocks feed, also, I wonder if those of us doing the fermented feed, if this would protect the flock from tapeworms! Guess, I am going to have to do some reading.

 

[Pozees]

Okay, finally catching up, been crazy around here.

This is the actual warning label on Duramycin:

"Warning
Do not slaughter birds or swine for food within 4 days of treatment or calves within 5 days of treatment. A withdrawal period has not been established for this product in pre-ruminating calves. Do not use in calves to be processed for veal . Not for use in turkeys or chickens producing eggs for human consumption. Do not use for more than 5 consecutive days in swine and calves, or 14 consecutive days in birds."

I hope no one takes this as me being rude or condescending, I just want to make sure we all realize what we need to be safe for the purposes of our consumers (mine are my neighbors

).

And a quick note on antibiotics in big commercial laying establishments, they may use them when the chicks are very young (this is allowed) and they may use them at very low levels to "promote growth". Those levels don't actually kill anything, they just generate antibiotic resistant bacteria, and hence, why so many of us have moved to raising our own eggs!

There is a website www.farad.org. Select to search VetGRAM, then select "Approved Species" and "Chickens, all use classes" (not "Chickens - all approvals" which will give you roosters and meat birds). You will get a list of drugs that can be used on ALL classes of chickens (including layers), but when you click on "View" next to a drug, you will find many of them say "for use in 1-3 day old chicks only".

Really sucks because I just lost a bird to pneumonia and some sort of tapeworm that comes from dragonflies (crazy) and I'd like to be able to treat my other girls if they show similar signs.

I may be mistaken but I believe this to mean one should not eat their eggs while they are being treated, nor for about 2 weeks after treatment has ended. Duramycin/Tetracycline has been used to treat upper respiratory infections in birds for a long time.

Long term low-dose antibiotic treatment for the purpose of accelerating growth is, indeed, a primary reason I don't want to buy eggs at the store.

Natural remedies for bacterial infections include adding garlic and oregano to the feed, and if I'm not mistaken, cayenne pepper also supports their immune systems. Maintaining good bacteria with probiotics (yogurt with no added sugar, especially homemade) helps, and fogging/misting with Oxine can help combat bacterial and fungal infections. I am a new fan of Oxine, it isn't cheap, but it goes a long way, and can be used with confidence when not activated, carefully when activated with citric acid (which will kill even viruses, but one must clear out all the birds from the area being treated and wear a respirator - I don't have one, and don't plan to buy one, so I haven't used it activated).

I keep a spray bottle of 1 quart of water with 1/8 tsp of Oxine with me all the time now, I spray the food dishes every night after I wash them, and spray the waterers when I clean them and the trays underneath almost every night, even spray my hands before handling eggs I am putting into the incubator or moving into the hatcher, especially since this usually happens right after I've cared for all the birds.

About once a week I add 1/8 tsp per gallon of drinking water. When I clean a pen I spray the whole thing down with my quart bottle sprayer. I spray the air the chickens breathe a few times a week, can be done 2-3 times a day if one suspects the need for support. Non-activated, Oxine diluted with water is a fungistat and bacteriostat. Activated it kills everything, on contact, faster and better than bleach with less hazard to the environment, but as I said, it can't be used activated with birds present and the manufacturer warns it should not be inhaled in activated form by humans, either.

As an aside, I learned in correspondence with CSU that they OFTEN see mycoplasma (MG and MS) in necropsied birds, and that, as I have previously stated, Marek's is everywhere. They recommend purchasing only vaccinated birds. If one is buying only chicks from hatcheries that vaccinate and if one never hatches eggs, that makes sense. For me it does not, and I will no longer purchase vaccinated chicks. Many of you already read this a couple of weeks ago, so feel free to move on at this point For the rest: The vaccine used by hatcheries creates a situation wherein the birds shed live virus essentially throughout their lives, infecting unvaccinated birds in the process. If the unvaccinated birds are older than 6 months of age, or run with turkeys, no worries, but younger/no turkey exposure, means you have to hope their immune systems can battle the virus successfully. Many cannot. I had high losses of high quality (read: expensive) Speckled Sussex juveniles because I housed them among vaccinated birds. Those who have survived should be resistant and should produce resistant chicks.

I am looking into Midget White Turkeys. Turkeys carry a mild form of Marek's which can inoculate chickens and "teach" their immune systems to fight Marek's. I love my chickens, and love other peoples' turkeys, but for me, smaller is better when it comes to Turkeys, that's why I'm looking into the Midgets. If anyone here has had any experience with them, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[techpeak]

another fun video to give you a chuckle...
this one is on How to Teach you chickens that you are the boss

I am actually going to a shelter veterinarian meeting this fall where the hosting organization is going to teach us clicker training. They told us it is possible to clicker train a chicken. I told them I am bringing my rooster...

 

[techpeak]

That is bizarre! How did you find that out?

ETA, Some flock owners swear by garlic added to their flocks feed, also, I wonder if those of us doing the fermented feed, if this would protect the flock from tapeworms! Guess, I am going to have to do some reading.

I don't know about tapeworms, but a while back a laboratory did a study on garlic and fleas (which garlic is supposed to prevent). They found the pets fed garlic actually had MORE fleas! The tough part is that no one actually does controlled studies on the natural stuff, we are stuck with anecdotes. But I figure if it works for someone, and it doesn't do any harm, I'm gonna give it a try

 

[suncatcher]

Quote: That is what I have been reading, there is a withdrawl time, for both eggs and meat birds, also what I found was was written by a manufacturer of Durmaycin. There are two kinds, Duramycin 10 and Duramycin 324. It is safe to use, and has been used for years on all kinds of farm animals, cattle, dairy cattle, turkeys, swine and chickens.

I like the idea of the Oxine and may order a quart to have on hand. Also, the turkeys sound like a natural way to help the chickens make antibodies naturally for Mereks!

I know nothing about turkeys, and did not even realize there were a smaller breed of turkey! Thanks for that info, something I will look into.