Crossing Yokohama

[Blackbird_13]

Has anyone done this with hens and a non yokohama roo? What did you get? I thought I had a pair (white yokohama) but I'm leaning towards 2 hens now. If I cross them with say a black copper maran roo will the males get the long tails or no? I'm not seeing anything on crosses yet.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Has anyone done this with hens and a non yokohama roo? What did you get? I thought I had a pair (white yokohama) but I'm leaning towards 2 hens now. If I cross them with say a black copper maran roo will the males get the long tails or no? I'm not seeing anything on crosses yet.

Unfortunately I don't have any information for you.
However I'd love to see some pics of the cross so far. Do you have any pics?

 

[gojira]

Most likely, males would not have long tails. Why are you wanting to use Black Copper Marans?

 

[mistfall]

I disagree with the previous post. The tail growth gene is dominant, so assuming the Yokohama is homozygous for that gene (Gt/Gt) it would pass a dominant tail growth gene to all its offspring, and all would have longer than normal tails. Since they would all have one recessive gene for short tails, however, there’d be only a 50% chance they’d pass the long tail on to any chick of their own.

I have a roo that is half Ayam Cemani and half Phoenix. He has the long tail.

 

[mistfall]

Here’s another question on picking a Yokohama roo for breeding:

If you have to choose between a cockerel with a straight tail but 20% shorter tail and saddle feathers, and a cockerel with a wry tail but 20% longer tail feathers, which would you choose. The goal is to bring the longtail/ hackle / saddle genes into the flock.

 

[gojira]

What do you consider a long tail? What is Gt? Do you understand the genes involved in having long tails?

 

[mistfall]

I would say a tail such as seen in the Phoenix, Yokohama, minohiki, onogadori, Sumatra, Cubalaya breeds is a long tail. Gt is the abbreviation for the extended tail growth gene, as reported by researchers such as seen here: http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page3.html and in publications such as "The Genetics of Chicken Extremes" by Sigrid van Dort. It seems to be a simple dominant gene, so yes, as a biologist who took genetics in college, I understand it well enough to know how to breed for it.

So, purebred birds from the above breeds will have two copies of Gt, and always have long-tailed offspring. If outcrossed to a normal-tailed bird, all the chicks will be Gt/gt. They will have long tails. If bred to each other, 25% of their offspring will be Gt/Gt - pure for the long tail growth gene. 50% will be like the parents -impure for the long tail growth gene. 25% of the offspring will be gt/gt and have short tails.

There's also a recessive non-moulting gene that enhances the length of the tail by causing the feathers to be moulted less frequently. A Marans/Yokohama cross would be Nm(normal moulting)/nm (non-moulting) and would moult its feathers normally, so they would not get to be as long as the feathers of a bird that was pure for the non-moulting gene, but they would still be longer than the Marans because of the tail-growth gene.

 

[gojira]

Just a thought, you might want to study the histories of the breeds you mentioned, and their differences. There is a large difference between the length of tail in an onagadori and a standard Phoenix. Many Yokohama do not have the nonmolting gene, which accounts for the difference in tail length. Again, study the history of the breed, and you will see that. So, if the bird is a typical Yokohama, that gene is not in play.

 

[Bross63]

I would say a tail such as seen in the Phoenix, Yokohama, minohiki, onogadori, Sumatra, Cubalaya breeds is a long tail.

There's also a recessive non-moulting gene that enhances the length of the tail by causing the feathers to be moulted less frequently. A Marans/Yokohama cross would be Nm(normal moulting)/nm (non-moulting) and would moult its feathers normally, so they would not get to be as long as the feathers of a bird that was pure for the non-moulting gene, but they would still be longer than the Marans because of the tail-growth gene.

As gojira stated Onagadori should not be compared to the other breeds mentioned as it is a unique bird different from all other longtails.

Also, you are incorrectly stating Yokohama are non-moulting. The only breeds that possess and expresses non-moulting are Onagadori and the higher quality lines of genertic hackle, not really a breed, and which had Onagadori bred into them and concentrated for growth traits decades ago. Phoenix and Yokohama were created using Onagadori decades ago by crossing to breeds such as leghorns. There are no non-moulting Phoenix or Yokohama despite what some of the peddlers will try to get you to believe.

I have started the testing process for some of my males. They must go three years for some feathers and at least four years for other feathers in their tail and saddle in order to be proven truly non-moulting.

By the way if anyone claims their birds are non-moulting, ask them for photos of their current birds (not old photos of birds they no longer have) that grew their tail and saddles for four years without moulting. And ask them for photos of their current breeders that have grown more than a 4-5’ tail. If they can’t show you photos of current birds that are growing or have been recently grown to 10’ plus then they are lying and trying to scam you out of money. Onagadori are to grow 35” minimum per year, and some grow much more than that.

 

[Bross63]

1 year, 8 month old cock, still in blood feather and actively growing his tail and saddles despite having been housed with and breeding hens for the past two months. He is isolated again for (hopefully) continued growth. Not a Phoenix or Yokohama.