Delawares from kathyinmo

[capayvalleychick]

This thread is for people who have received the new strain of Delawares created by kathyinmo. We can share photos and discuss their progress.

 

[fowlman01]

I've got two breeding males of this line, one for each generation. Sire and son. I only started last year, with a trio.

There aren't a lot of these birds running around yet. Maybe people working with more established breeds can toy with the idea of bringing in fresh genetics without losing quality and introducing a lot of nasty surprises to the line. But we don't have a ton of extra birds with this line of Delawares, so I don't see a big benefit in worrying over this issue until it is somehow relevant.

Until then, we either work on moving this line forward the best we can using what we've got, or we essentially start over by using birds from other lines.

Certainly trying to share the best quality trios possible with other interested breeders would be cool ... does anyone really have much extra quality to spread around? Once you let go of good birds ... it's a risk.

The info of who started with the F4s from this line is lost. I only know from participation in this thread who has some now, and hope those that do have some will focus on keeping them "pure" and breed toward the SOP.

This recreation that Kathy first started and others are working on, Is the closest to the APA Standard of any of the lines I have seen. Yes, there are some color problems ,but that will be corrected as there are some dedicated people working with this line and serious progress has been shown. In my opinion putting in another strain will do serious damage to the work that has been done. People like yourself, Kim and others are making very good progress. These things always take some time when starting from scratch. Outside vigor is pushed by some people on this site.............to me that is what bad breeders or inexperienced breeders need to do.....and it causes so many problems by introducing many other problems. I have had my line of Leghorns for over 40 years without introducing any outside blood and these birds have vigor that won't quit.

I am all for making breeding as easy as possible, but many here want to make chickens as complicated as possible. To breed to the Standard is very difficult but there are no quick fixes like adding "outside vigor".

Walt

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I may be looking for Delaware’s also please let me know if you find some.
Thanks

Check out the United Delaware Poultry Club’s Facebook page. There are now several lines of Delawares that have been worked on for long enough that the breed is generally improving. Different breeders focusing on different goals. So it’s possible to get a head start on one’s own goals.

Here are a couple of the current Oregon Delaware cockerels (Kathy’s Line birds) from my flock.

 

[gjensen]

Wasn't able to upload photos last week .... here are my pullets. I couldn't get a good line up shot since the run is narrow. Some of them also were standing in odd position while in the cages, so I also evaluated them loose in the coop.
Two culls due to low weight & size:
O39 was 4 lbs. 5 oz.
O38 was 4 lbs. 14 oz.

The pullet (W38) with the highest weight, 6 lbs. 7 oz., has some things that may also make her a cull, but I'm not sure if I'm mistaking what I'm seeing & feeling. Her keel has a small round bump on the end. One wing may be split, but maybe not, the gap is slight. Her tail angle is also much lower than the rest.

B10 is nice, 6 lbs. has the widest skull, good width from the top but her tail width could be better:


O37 is 5 lbs 14 oz. She has the best width of tail and good width from the top. She has the solid, Columbian type hackle. She's also feisty for a hen, pecks my leg & boot. She lacks a smooth transition from back to tail.


O36 is 5 lbs 7 oz. She is not as wide as the larger pullets, has a shorter back and her tail width could be better. Are tails like this considered a break in the tail? And I think the angle is too high. This photo is not the best.



W36 is also 5 lbs 7 oz. She has good width from the top, medium width of tail. Her hackle has some barring & some solid striping. Her tail almost looks split, which bothers me.


So, those are the females. I do single mating. What I'm wondering is ... do I use every male with every female to see what they produce or should I only pair them according to their qualities?

Wasn't able to upload photos last week .... here are my pullets. I couldn't get a good line up shot since the run is narrow. Some of them also were standing in odd position while in the cages, so I also evaluated them loose in the coop.
Two culls due to low weight & size:
O39 was 4 lbs. 5 oz.
O38 was 4 lbs. 14 oz.

The pullet (W38) with the highest weight, 6 lbs. 7 oz., has some things that may also make her a cull, but I'm not sure if I'm mistaking what I'm seeing & feeling. Her keel has a small round bump on the end. One wing may be split, but maybe not, the gap is slight. Her tail angle is also much lower than the rest.

B10 is nice, 6 lbs. has the widest skull, good width from the top but her tail width could be better:


O37 is 5 lbs 14 oz. She has the best width of tail and good width from the top. She has the solid, Columbian type hackle. She's also feisty for a hen, pecks my leg & boot. She lacks a smooth transition from back to tail.


O36 is 5 lbs 7 oz. She is not as wide as the larger pullets, has a shorter back and her tail width could be better. Are tails like this considered a break in the tail? And I think the angle is too high. This photo is not the best.



W36 is also 5 lbs 7 oz. She has good width from the top, medium width of tail. Her hackle has some barring & some solid striping. Her tail almost looks split, which bothers me.


So, those are the females. I do single mating. What I'm wondering is ... do I use every male with every female to see what they produce or should I only pair them according to their qualities?

Wasn't able to upload photos last week .... here are my pullets. I couldn't get a good line up shot since the run is narrow. Some of them also were standing in odd position while in the cages, so I also evaluated them loose in the coop.
Two culls due to low weight & size:
O39 was 4 lbs. 5 oz.
O38 was 4 lbs. 14 oz.

The pullet (W38) with the highest weight, 6 lbs. 7 oz., has some things that may also make her a cull, but I'm not sure if I'm mistaking what I'm seeing & feeling. Her keel has a small round bump on the end. One wing may be split, but maybe not, the gap is slight. Her tail angle is also much lower than the rest.

B10 is nice, 6 lbs. has the widest skull, good width from the top but her tail width could be better:


O37 is 5 lbs 14 oz. She has the best width of tail and good width from the top. She has the solid, Columbian type hackle. She's also feisty for a hen, pecks my leg & boot. She lacks a smooth transition from back to tail.


O36 is 5 lbs 7 oz. She is not as wide as the larger pullets, has a shorter back and her tail width could be better. Are tails like this considered a break in the tail? And I think the angle is too high. This photo is not the best.



W36 is also 5 lbs 7 oz. She has good width from the top, medium width of tail. Her hackle has some barring & some solid striping. Her tail almost looks split, which bothers me.


So, those are the females. I do single mating. What I'm wondering is ... do I use every male with every female to see what they produce or should I only pair them according to their qualities?

I would hold onto O38, as a reserve at least. She has the most distinctly marked tail, and you might wish you had her in a year or two. I would be wondering about her weight to. I would scrap her once I produced a couple pullets with better marked tails. Correctly marked tails will be an ongoing refinement. I know type is number one right now, but be careful to hold on to something that might help along the way.

I would not knock O36 too much. Proportionally she is not far off. If her tail was not as high and had better structure she would appear longer and have better balance. Delaware are not especially long birds, and just a little longer than NHs should be. Their capacity comes from their width more than their length. The Delaware in the Schilling print is not especially long. Look for balance.

IMO those prints are the best examples that we have and you guys have the opportunity to have them a bit sharper.

Be on guard to the faults the parent stock had trends towards and you will be better for it in the long run. The NH wings can get a little lazy, and there is some variability in regards to how level they are. Watch for low wings. The tail breaks tend to be a bit exaggerated, but one with good structure could be useful along the way. The BR males tend to have poor tails, breed wide so it would help to stay mindful of it from the start. The BRs and their fine barring and beautiful feather is also a hang up on the tails. The feather does not tend to have the structure to hold up, leaving a bird that tends to be flat across the back with no lift.

Anyways, I just thought I would offer some opinions. You guys have a neat project to work on.

 

[kathyinmo]

I am home from hospital and recovering quite well with no problems. Chest tube is out and I am breathing easily without struggling. Surgeon found a tumor about the size of an egg on the back of my right thyroid, so he removed both. I am weak and tired (OK - Lazy!) and am sleeping alot. My computer is down stairs and today is the first I felt up to coming down.

All is well, and I look forward to an active summer! Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers!

 

[finnfur]

This is a good illustration

The cock has a continuos sweep - the hen just gradual- this is what we are all looking for

 

[rancher hicks]

Been a while since I've visited here. Will have to remember to check in come spring for Delaware eggs to add some new girls and boys. Have to see how things go with DW and work. Did I mention I came out of retirement? Just PT but still at my age it's a bit much at times.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Yes. As most of you know, Kathy made these Delaware the way they were originally made. To do it, she crossed the GSBR with the heritage New Hampshire and if I remember correctly, the NH's were 50/50 American and German lines.

The New Hampshire is fast to grow, reasonably quick to feather and quick to point of lay. However the GSBR/Reese/ringlets are notoriously slow. That portion of the background doesn't feather out until 9 weeks and won't enter laying until 9 months of age. Since Kathy's formula includes a reasonably quick layer with a very slow layer, I'd not hazard a guess, but perhaps somewhere in between the two parent stock used some four generations back.

Welcome to the world of standard bred, heritage fowl. Everything slows down. But the size, the true to type, true to standard, docile, large bodied, long living, long laying nature of the birds? Well worth it in every regard. Not to mention the intelligence.

 

[kathyinmo]

Ditto what Bee said about the book.

Quote:
I do not like that story. He is out and out admitting that he knew the birds and then went on to award them Grand Champions. I don't like that. I left a reply-comment (it was not rude) on his story and he deleted it. Furthermore, he has contacted me several times - wanting some of my Delawares. If those birds are so good (as he says) then why does he want some of mine?

 

[Beekissed]

Chicken math is easy...as long as you remember that there is more to arithmetic than adding and multiplying. Try subtracting before adding any more birds and promise yourself you will stick to that precept and only keep a certain stocking rate that suits your coop space, soil health, available forage or feed money, and lifestyle.... and then stick with it.

It will make you be more selective on breeds and quality of birds if you can only have X amount of birds to fit this criteria. It will also keep your culling on track for improving your overall flock health, quality and production.

What I see most on these forums are people who have become overwhelmed in their flock keeping because they only applied addition and multiplication in their chicken math, then the flock management goes out the window as they struggle to keep up with all the pens, the feeding and watering, the breeding of this one to that one, costs, time and good health practices. Any little problem in their life can knock down that house of cards in a second and leave them floundering with too much stock on hand and the lack of time, money, or health to manage them all.

Keeping chickens should be easy and, if at any time it is not, it's time to subtract until it is once again. I recommend anyone keeping chickens or other flocks to reassess their stocking rates and priorities each year so as to eliminate time wasters, money eaters, nonproductive or sentimental value birds. This keeps the lines from getting so blurry and can really help a person do one or two things and do them right instead of many things, done not so well.