Dogs and chickens

[TJAnonymous]

I've got a problem with my dog and I'm very sensitive about it. We have a half Husky - half Great Pyrenees puppy who will be 1 yr old next week. She has a very large fenced backyard with a 5 ft chain link fence. The back length of the fence abuts my very large fenced chicken and goat yard and my duck yard. The entire length of the backyard where the animal yards meet is DOUBLE FENCED meaning chain link fencing on the dog side and 4" panel fencing on chicken/goat/duck SIDE.

So my dog has been socially introduced by co-existing on a daily basis side by side with the chickens and ducks. However I have never let her into their chicken yard nor let her around them without a leash. She LOVES to chase the squirrels and does so on a daily basis. She also LOVES to play keep away and tug-of-war with her dog toys. We've never seen a reason previously not to let her play in this manner because she wasn't harming anything.

There's is a little pavilion like structure in my chicken yard that the goats and chickens use to get out of the rain or sun. I didn't build it. It was already here when we moved in. Our chickens frequently like to fly up on top of it and, when they do, it puts them in a position where they can easily fly over the fence and into the backyard with the dog. Most of my chickens are far too fat and heavy to do this... However, my Ameracauna roosters have done it a time or two. The dog chased at them but they easily flew out of the yard before she got too close.

Back in late August, I got a new batch of chicks from McMurray which included 5 Blue Andalusians. When these babies were about 8 weeks old, one found a gap in the bottom of the fence because the dog had been digging for moles (they drive her almost as nuts as the squirrels). I was thankfully outside and saw what was going on at the moment she caught the baby. She did not want to give it up and was running from me while carrying the baby gently in her mouth. She has a shock collar which we bought to train her not to jump on people. We usually NEVER use the shock portion but only use the vibration portion to discipline her for jumping. When she refused to let me have the baby back, I used the shock button. It definitely confused her and she stopped long enough for me to grab her and get the baby back. It was completely unharmed but I spanked her anyway for the incident. That's another thing.... It was the first time I've ever spanked her so she knew she had done something wrong.

Everything has been going well since then until last night. The dog wanted outside so someone put her out. Lately she has been unwilling to come back inside at night. Not sure why.... I figured she likes the chilly air? Anyway, yesterday was a nice day so the chickens had been outside free ranging most of the day. After the sun went down, they went back in their coop like always. I have nearly 35 chickens so I didn't realize that 1 was missing. I went to try to entice the dog back in the house when I noticed she had one of my Blue Andalusian babies again. The babies are now 16 weeks old. This time, it was clearly dead. She took off with it again and did not want to give it back. I grabbed the remote for her collar. She was frantically trying to bury the dead chicken to hide it from me. I hit the shock button on her collar and grabbed the scruff of her neck. My husband grabbed the dead chick at the same time. Our dog actually growled at us! She has NEVER EVER acted like this before. I smacked her on the butt and said a stern NO. She actually SNARLED at me again. I let her go and she took off for the house where my daughter was standing. I was so livid.... With the dog and the situation.

I'm pretty certain that the baby got on top of the pavilion and flew into the backyard. I have no idea when this occurred because we were busy with Thanksgiving dinner. But after examining the dead chick, she ATE at least half of the bird. Plus it was really dark outside so it had to have happened sometime during the afternoon....

I'm very disheartened. I love my dog and I know she is just following her instinct. I also love my chickens just as much as I love my dog... Of the Blue Andalusians I got from McMurray, I only got 2 blue chicks... The others are more white than blue. This chick she killed was one of the Blue ones.... Maybe the same one she got before although I can't be sure. Regardless it was one of my favorites.... So I'm just sick in my heart today.

I don't know how to teach her to not kill them. Especially now that she ATE one of them. I'm also not sure what I can do to prevent the others from making the same fatal mistake. The pavilion is too big to dismantle plus it provides them shelter that they absolutely use. I've tried to put pinwheels and other deterrents to keep the chickens from flying over the fence but it isn't working.

Just heartsick.....

 

[azygous]

You have all my sympathy. It's a heartbreaking story, both from the dead chick and the deterioration of your relationship with your pup.

Trying to raise a dog in proximity to chickens demands knowledge and experience. In the way you tried to discipline, actually punished, your puppy, demonstrates you need to do some reading and learning about dog behavior and how to administer discipline so the dog can learn from its mistakes and build mutual trust.

By punishing the dog, spanking, and by wresting away its hard won prize that it considered its food, you became a competitor instead of a trusted "senior leader of the pack." This is why your pup is now growling at you. You are now the opposition instead of a member of the pack. You and your dog have both jumped the tracks, so to speak.

The only way to reset this and try to start fresh is to remove the dog from its proximity to the chickens and begin with basic dog training lessons to reestablish your dominance and regain your dog's trust. I really don't see how to salvage things without starting over from scratch without actually making things even worse.

 

[LaFleche]

2. Find a way to teach her not to kill chickens.

Being part husky and having already enjoyed the kill and eaten half of it, I think this ship has already sailed.

With supervision she might behave, but I do not think this will last when she is alone with the enticement.

 

[Geena]

You are using the e-collar incorrectly. The shocks need to be very well timed to coincide exactly with when the indiscretion is initiated, not later when you happened to discover it and were pissed off. I would suggest that you lose the collar until you learn how to use it correctly. It's VERY easy to ruin a good dog with poor e-collar corrections.
The reason your dog growled at you is because it was already amped up from making a kill, then you shocked it out of nowhere, then scruffed it, and spanked it. No doubt the dog was confused and defensive and probably even afraid of you at that point. Nothing wrong with disciplining a dog, but it needs to be done properly and effectively and not out of anger.

 

[ackie]

I think a strong reaction is merited when it's a life or death situation like this one. My SO has trained dogs all his life and he is adamant that jumping their stuff is required where chasing birds is concerned because it is much harder to correct after the fact (sorry OP). I'm glad you had the shock collar available as an option because chasing the dog around could have been considered playing. I'm glad you got the first chick back.

I do not know what to do as far as your dog, but perhaps you could add height to the fence, even if it's just poles on each end and netting across it.

We have a dog yard and chickens that free range outside the dog yard. They never go in there, but one did the other day. Dog A grabbed it and Dog B completely ignored it. Dog A dropped the bird when I showed up but was definitely still keyed on it from a distance and Dog B was just like oh hi mom whatcha doing? Same breed, same litter, both raised together here. I have no idea.

I wish your bird had lived, for obvious reasons but also to tell the flock not to go over the fence. *sad laugh*

 

[LaFleche]

I am sorry you lost your pullet and feel so disappointed in your dog.

We have a half Husky - half Great Pyrenees puppy who will be 1 yr old next week

To me this seems to be an unfavourable mix as the Husky is well known for a strong prey drive and obstinacy and Great Pyrenees for their independent spirit and love of freedom.

 

[ackie]

2. Find a way to teach her not to kill chickens.

I feel much more certain about the 1st one than the 2nd.....

Metal chicken armour!
I know this is a serious problem but I hope the idea of tiny chicken knights brought you a smidge of something good in this awful dilemma

 

[CluckerFamily]

I think it is great that you have a dog fenced in area separate from the chicken area especially with the mixed breed that she is. She also knows her area and if a trespasser enters her area, that is their fault.
I am sorry for the loss of one of your flock members.
I think her past with food aggression and the situation that she hadn't been in before caused her to react to you the way she did. I don't think keeping her out at night will teach her to not do this again. I think your best option is to continue to keep her separate from the chickens and to keep them out of her area. Maybe an chicken wire fence apron on the outside of her fencing may help to not allow the chickens into her area.

 

[LaFleche]

1. Find a way to keep the chickens from flying into the backyard

You could clip the feathers of one wing which lets them lose their equilibrium when trying to fly and makes it much harder to fly up.
In case of emergency they will still be able to escape to safety, but they will no longer enjoy flying about or up into trees etc.

Another way would be to cover their run with netting.

 

[Geena]

Sorry but I disagree. I didn't shock her because I was pissed off that she had the bird. The bird was already dead. I shocked her because she refused to listen to ANY commands (sit, down, drop it).... All of which she knows. Instead she took off and tried to hide the bird. She was being corrected IN THE MOMENT when she was disobeying. And I didn't just go on a shock binge while pissed off. I didn't shock her more than twice. I WALKED up to her.... Mostly because you can't run in that area of the yard without losing a kneecap or spraining an ankle... Thanks to the moles and her digging everywhere.

Look, she's my dog. She is not and was not abused. I shocked her in the moment of her disobedience. She knew that she was doing something wrong. It was evident to her and everyone else who was there. I smacked her twice on the bottom in addition to the stern NO for her growling behavior. I feel there is NOTHING wrong with that response. In a dog pack, a superior dog would have bitten her or worse. She was disciplined. Not abused. You are entitled to your opinion but I've found that when it comes to dog training, many people have opinions. This post isn't about how I disciplined her but rather an explanation of the events that happened and looking for advice on how to TRAIN HER not to kill chickens. I even said in an earlier post that I am worried it may be too late to train her not to kill since she clearly killed and ate the Pullet last night.... But I'm still willing to try. She and my chickens deserve that much.

In your original post you didn't make mention of any commands before shocking her. I still feel you are using the e-collar incorrectly and hope that you learn to use it properly for your own sake as well as your dog's. I've seen dogs that were all screwed up by unfair e-collar corrections and it's ugly.

I do not think you are abusing her, it's plain to see you care very much for your dog. It just seems you don't quite know what you are doing with your training. As someone else mentioned you need to start back at square one. Hold off with the e-collar and work on your basic commands first.

If you want to make her chicken safe she needs to have a good solid come, leave it and drop it at the very least. She's only one year old right? Just a pup! You have another year or more of training ahead of you in order to get it right and get her where you're able to trust her. Good luck!