EMERGENCY! Can I give Baytril and Sulfamethazine at the same time??

[thailand]

Hi,

I have a sick chicken who I have suspected has Cocci, but now I'm not so sure. I've dosed with Corrid equivalent available here, dosed for 4 days. No improvement, so changed to Sufamethazine (only sulfa med available here). Dosed for 2 days at appropriate strength, today changed to 1/2 dose.

Not a lot of change....originally wobbly when walking, not eating or drinking that I could tell, yellow/green diarrhea. Now - chicken eating a tiny bit, drinking lot, all the way through has been very alert, talking, now walking normally with no weakness, but still has diarrhea constantly.

Should I just continue or is it time to change to Baytril??

I did worm her with albendazole 7 days ago.

Many thanks

 

[thailand]

Had diarrhea for 8 days already! She's nibbling on some frozen watermelon right now which is good.
Please.....all help appreciated. I don't want to lose her!!!

 

[thailand]

Just been and bought more chicken feed and now been told they do indeed stock the recommended Sulfadimethoxine (as opposed to the Sulfamethazine I bought two days ago).

Should I change to the Sulfadimethoxine??

Should I add Baytril to the mix?

Many thanks

 

[dawg53]

Hello Angela. It's possible you might be dealing with an ecoli bacterial infection in your chicken as evidenced by the yellow/green diarrhea. Your chicken may have been stressed in some manner causing bad bacteria to take over. What you need to do is beat back the bad bacteria and balance it out with good bacteria. Dont give her any sulfadimethoxine since you've already given her sulmet.
Baytril will beat back the bad bacteria but you'll need to give her heavy doses of probiotics, as much as you can in combination with the baytril.
If ecoli infection can be caught and treated early enough, your chicken might survive...it's a 50/50 shot.
If possible, try and get a fecal sample tested to see if your chicken is overwhelmed with the ecoli bacteria, it's the only way to be sure that's what you're dealing with. Ecoli is passed in feces, keep waterers/feeders clean and free of feces.
I hope this helps and good luck.

 

[KayTee]

I don't know about giving sulfadimethoxine and baytril at the same time, but don't forget that sulfadimethoxine, whilst it treats cocci effectively (it's what I use) is also an antibiotic, and too many antibiotics in the system can do more harm than good (one of the side effects being diarrhea).

I am not certain that 4 days on Corid was actually long enough to treat a cocci infection, and if you look up sulfamethazine on Wikipedia it shows as a short acting drug, whereas the sulfadimethoxine that you have now is a long acting one.

If you are still seeing lots of blood or shed intestinal lining in the poop then I would be inclined to start a 5 day treatment with the sulfadimethoxine (I have treated up to 8 days in the past on a vet's recommendation). At the same time I would try and get some probiotics into your bird to help re-establish the gut flora. The best is probiotic powder or tablets from the chemist, but if they are difficult or expensive to get hold of (they are mega-bucks here in France) then live natural yogurt always goes down well!

If you aren't seeing blood or intestinal lining in the poop then maybe it is just that her digestive system is 'off' after the treatment, and she just needs to get it back in balance. A photo or two of her most recent poops would be useful so that we could see what she is producing.

Fingers crossed that your girl starts to feel better soon.

 

[thailand]

Dawg & KayTee,

THANK YOU so much for responding. It is greatly appreciated, living so far away in Thailand, where local knowledge/medication is not always the same as elsewhere.

My hen truly has me baffled. She's very perky and alert most of the time, although mostly sitting or standing all day. She can and does walk, but not far, and it's definately not the same as before. There is no nasal discharge nor any from her eyes. She is recovering from a bad case of mites, which I've been treating for some weeks. She also seems to be molting (or it could be from the mites or roosters).

When she is resting during the day (always sitting down), she has me really worried because she looks like she's died! Then, if I wake her up, she immediately stands up and is Miss Perky again, looking like nothing much is wrong with her.

There is NO blood or intestinal lining in her poops. Never has been. The poops are very watery (granted it's very hot and humid here at the moment, and 2 weeks ago I lost 2 chickens to heat), but they vary from clear water with dark green blobs in, to yellowy-white with bits of green in. She's managed to eat some watermelon this morning, and some grapes and canteloupe this afternoon. That's about all I can get her interested in eating. I have force fed several black soldier fly larvae down her throat a couple of times in desperation. She has lost weight....I need to weigh her though to check by how much.

I haven't bought the sulfadimethoxine yet. I was going to wait on advice given here about whether it's worth switching or not. And, as you say KayTee, the sulfamethazine I'm already giving her is a combined antibiotic as well as cocci treatment.


Dawg, an e-coli infection had crossed my mind. (Thanks for noticing my post, I was hoping I'd hear from you). In your opinion, should I now stop the sulfadimethazine which she's been on for only 2 days. She does appear a little improved having been on this. If your recommendation is that I should stop the sulfa drug and begin a course of Baytril, then that is what I will do. Please confirm.

I'll try to get a photo of her poop and post it here, tonight or tomorrow morning. Can you both please check back here to take a look at it.

Again a big thanks. I love this forum where help is so forthcoming from experienced people such as yourselves.

 

[KayTee]

Having reread the posts in this thread, and since you say you see no blood in the poop I am inclined to agree with Dawg53 about an intestinal infection.
I am on my phone at the moment and can't add the photo I want to, but if you look for clostridium perfringens on BYC you should find a couple of threads that either I or Nambroth have started / contributed to, and they have a photo of poop that Nambroth took. I will try and post the photo here later today, if you haven't managed to post yours first

 

[thailand]

Photos as promised, from this morning. I've just weighed her and am horrified to say she is down from 6 pounds to only 2 pounds!!! I've immediately given her 2 mls of Baytril and taken away the sulfamethazine water. I've now given her vitamins/electrolytes. I need to add that she is still very alert and interested in everything going on around her. She's walking around ok.

Many thanks

Note: the 2nd poop photo below is the best poop she's had in 9 days.

Edited to correct above: Made an error in her current weight. She is 5.07 pounds (down from 6.61 pounds), so actually dosed her with 5mls (soaked pieces of bread and shoved it down her throat). The dosage I'm working on is 1 ml per pound of Baytril 0.5% for piglets. Someone please confirm for me that the Baytril dosage is correct.

 

[thailand]

Today, after giving the Baytril she pecked at some watermelon. Didn't eat very much. I then force fed her 16 x black soldier fly larvae and around 15 mls of baby bird food (via syringe). I think the bird food may have probiotics in it.

She is sleeping more today than she has other days.

Is there anything else I can do for her?? How often should I force feed her the bird food?

 

[KayTee]

Whew - Glad you made an error with that post of her weight! Losing a pound and a half isn't good, but it's better than being down to 2 pounds! The poop pictures don't look a lot like clostridium perfringens, but as Dawg says the green / yellow is indication of infection.

For the Baytril dosage, Poultrypedia says 0.25ml of 10% solution per day for a 5lb chicken. Therefore a 1% solution would require a 2.5ml dose (ten times as much as the 10% solution), and a 0.5% solution 5 ml (twice as much as the 1% solution). Kind of a rambling calculation, but my excuse is that I'm an English teacher, not a maths teacher!

It would therefore seem that you've been dosing her perfectly.

Just for information, this is what Poultrypedia says about Baytril dosage and administration:

Baytril for Birds

Disclaimer: The information on this website is gathered from many sources and presented by an individual. It may not be accurate or complete. It should not necessarily be considered expert advice. Some medicine uses below are off-label & not USDA-approved, and should only be used when authorized by your veterinarian.

Baytril is a powerful antibiotic that is effective for a large number of bacterial & mycoplasmal infections, including pasteurellosis, mycoplasmosis, coli-bacillosis, coli-septicaemia and salmonellosis. Baytril is the brand name for Enrofloxacin, which is a powerful bactericidal medicine in the Fluoroquinolone class.

Dosage


0.25 ml or cc of 10% liquid per day for average 5-lb. chicken.

• Can split dose in half & give twice a day for more constant treatment, or give continuously in drinking water (PP does not recommend in drinking water, since birds are very reluctant to drink it).

Treatment period

For salmonellosis or pasteurellosis: 5-10 days
For other conditions: 3-5 days (or up to 10, if necessary)
*One set of experiments has seemed to indicate that a 2-day treatment at 0.625 ml Baytril per day for 5-lb chicken may be possibly preferable for some conditions instead of the generally recommends 5 days at a 0.25 ml dose, but this has not been thoroughly researched.




Combinations to avoid

• Direct sunlight will inactivate Baytril. If giving in drinking water, place bowl in shade.
• Minerals such as calcium, magnesium & iron significantly reduce absorption of Baytril during digestion. Try to avoid giving these to a chicken for at least a couple hours before & after dosing with Baytril.
  High levels of these minerals may be found in dairy products, some nutritional supplements, calcite, formulated feeds, hard water, etc.

I hope your girl starts to improve soon. She looks like a real cutie!