Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Fred's Hens]

I've been stewing over what Fred had to say above. I looked at the ABLC listing of chickens, and their footnote is that most data was compiled from Sand Hill. THen to me the data is applicable to Sand Hill stock, and not necessarily or likely to other strains. Perhaps it is a starting point: some characteristics are more likely to be certain than other points. I would feel more certain about egg color and foraging/ less foraging style than say numbers of eggs, or dressing weights.

I wondered if any feels like it could be valuable to record the same characteristics for the stock we do have. Perhaps m ost of us don't collect that level of data for a number of reasons. Just a thought.

All I know is this. There are, arguably, 5 or 6 strains of single comb Reds and a couple rose comb Red lines today. There is going to be a bit of variance in them, Not a whole bunch, but some. In the Barred Rocks, I honestly don't know if the Stukel line lays better than the Reese line I have, but I suspect they might. There's a fella up in Maine who has a nice line of BRs that lay quite well. The history of this line is hush-hush, not that it matters, as this guy now rightfully says they are his, as he has chosen the breeders for many generations.






That's about all I know, other than, absolutely, certain White Rock lines lay very well, for standard bred bird, even a touch over 240 eggs per year. I'd consider that really good laying, myself. My experience with White Rocks goes back almost 55 years. Those birds were never "supposed" to lay any better than that. We kept Leghorns back then for eggs, but even the Leghorns we had in those days were HUGE compared to the modern Leghorn Xs.

My concern with the modern White Rocks is the opposite. They've grown far too large. If I want White Giants, I'd keep White Giants. Shrug. It is what it is.

 

[fowlman01]

As we have discussed before Fred. The Leghorns of the old days were big birds.....big enough to be a dual purpose bird. The Leghorn show stock is much larger than the hatchery type Leghorns and more like they were back in the day. Off to grade a BYC members flock.

Walt

 

[catdaddyfro]

My neighbor cousin tells of a time(reared in the 50s) when each year they would by a couple of hundred straight run leghorns his Grandma would raise them up and keep the pullets for layers and they would butcher the males as fryers. I was kid the first time I ever heard this story and was like what??(because all I had ever been introduced to as W Leghorns was these scrawny/rangey type, commercial/industrial strains) which didn't seem to me they would be eating on much. LOL


Jeff

 

[Fred's Hens]

My neighbor cousin tells of a time(reared in the 50s) when each year they would by a couple of hundred straight run leghorns his Grandma would raise them up and keep the pullets for layers and they would butcher the males as fryers. I was kid the first time I ever heard this story and was like what??(because all I had ever been introduced to as W Leghorns was these scrawny/rangey type, commercial/industrial strains) which didn't seem to me they would be eating on much. LOL


Jeff

Jeff, common practice. We'd get 250 day olds in every spring. 200 White Leghorns and 50 White Rocks. Straight runs. The Leghorn made dandy fryers at 17-18 weeks, while the Rocks were held until 19-22 weeks for "roasters". These are old farmers' terms, but we knew what they meant. Since the chickens were my job on the farm since I was 7 or 8, I'd grade them for butchering and we'd take them on a couple of weekends in early fall, soon as the weather cooled nicely.

I'd also grade the pullets and kept mostly Rocks, but a few larger Leghorns for the winter laying flock of 8 or 10 birds. By Thanksgiving, they'd commence.

 

[Robert Blosl]

The question I ask beginners is what is your needs or goal. Most of them are addicted to high egg yields of Commerical Poultry chicks and think that Standard Breed Chicks should lay the same. Then they get torn up inside why not. Some never can adjust to what a Standard Breed old time chicken should or should not do. Many times they start reading old books and here that this line or that strain produced 255 eggs in a year. If you could only see these birds they where not Standard Breed but the early version of to days commerical breeds. They cheated in egg laying contest as the birds where suppose to score at least 90 points to the breed. This happen in Rhode Island Reds then when a picture of a high egg laying pullet was photographed and published in a chicken journal or Rhode Island Red Journal the others could see these where scrubs and their true to breed R I Reds that layed 205 or 215 got beat by a today cherry egger. Then the ROP contests went down the toilet and they where gone. The production chicken took over on commerical farms and the the once 5,000 member Rhode Island Red Club went to a few hundred of dye hard breeders.s

Most of the people are better off get tin chicks from hatcheries and stay away from the Standard Breed birds as their goals are not to be preservationist but to sell meat or eggs for a profit.

That is why only about a half a percent of the people on this web site can raise such a fowl. You have to tip your hat to the folks who have taken up raising a true to life old fashion breed. The secret and one I think I just convinced a person out west was to get the best strain of Black Austarops that they can buy. Just dont buy any line from say a good hatchery. If you figure how long it would take you to grade or breed up a so so line to the best line it would take about 5 to 8 years of breeding 100 chicks and culling them each year. Now figure that in feed cost it may cost $5,000. to do this. Would it be better to spend $50 more for ten top of the line chicks then to fool with just a so so strain of the same breed.

Again its if you want the top line that looks good in feathers and lays as good as it can. Normally a good feathered breed of fowl will lay better than a bird from a stain that does not have good feather quality. Just my thoughts. If you want to make a profit then go with the profit making fowl.

 

[Fred's Hens]

As we have discussed before Fred. The Leghorns of the old days were big birds.....big enough to be a dual purpose bird. The Leghorn show stock is much larger than the hatchery type Leghorns and more like they were back in the day. .

Walt

I'd like to see a homesteader here post some photos of quality Leghorns. Those don't get much exposure on BYC. I'd love to see some.

 

[bnjrob]

If we had chickens that laid like production chickens are supposed to do, I'd go nuts. As it is, there's 7 dozen eggs in the fridge right now. We're getting about about 4-6 eggs a day out of 11 pullets.

 

[gg706]

I would like to raise some Heritage fowl for eggs and meat...a sustainable flock. Where would you begin? I was thinking about Delawares but I have seen mention of other breeds more often. I would like to be able to smoke the whole chickens about 250 degrees all day. Would Delaware be a good choice for me or could you suggest something else? I was going to purchase my start from Meyers Hatchery...Do you have another suggestion? Is it economical to raise a dual purpose just for family use? What age would I butcher a dual purpose for smoking all day. Would this cooking method make the dual purpose meat tough.

 

[Robert Blosl]

There are plenty of breeds that would make good eating and smoking for family use. I am considering getting me some white Cornish bantams. I have Rhode Island Reds and White Plymouth Rock large fowl.

The white rocks are big birds they grow med to slow because they are not hatchery chickens. When you look at them its like looking at a Registered dog or Cow. If any one has seen a Registered Pooled Hereford or Guernsey Cow there is a difference from the normal beef cattle you see in a field. I have only seen maybe down here to herds of pure breed beef cattle. Brahmas and one herd of Her fords. Normally they are crossed up mutts.

In dogs you can go to a Pet Store like Pet Smart down here in the South and you will see people come in with their dogs on a lease. Some are Shelter Dogs like mine half German Shepard and half Beagle. Nice dog kid of looks like a German Shepard but when we are in there and see a real one you know it just by the gate and the stance.

Same in chickens. When you order from a hatchery are you really getting the breed that you wont? Does it look like the picture on the web site? Most of the time you dont.

The pictures sent to me asking me what I think of their large fowl most of the time is the other. Then they think they really got something. When it comes to fast growing meat chickens I think the hatchery half white rock half white Cornish is the best. I had friends that ordered 500 of them each year in Maine and raised them and caponized them then had them ready for tier customers for Thanksgiving and Christmas. They may still do it but they have done it for over 40 years when I knew them.

The buckeye would make a good bird for your use. Delawares you must be reading the books or web sites talking about this breed. This breed is kind of rebuilding from the 1950s. Most of the birds today are pretty washed up in color. A new strain is being developed in Mo by a lady named on this website kathyinmo. She has done a bang up job crossing New Hampshire Females onto Barred Rock large fowl. Also, New Hampshire's are a fast growing bird and should have enough meat on their bones to enjoy . We have several good strains of these down here in the south.If you live in Georgia you need to make a date to drive to the New nan Georgia Poultry Show in Feb and see the large fowl there. This is one of the largest large fowl shows in the south. The white rocks, new Hampshire's, reds ect will be there to see. Then you can order chicks from these breeders. At least you will get a chance to see what pure breed or standard breed poultry look like. Its like night and day. There is a new thread showing New Hampshire's made just a few days ago. The birds will be judged by a real APA judge the best he can to show the strengths and faults of this old Standard Breed breed. Hope this helps you. Now I have a question how do you smoke your chickens. I am building a smoke house this week. Six feet tall, 3x3 ft in side with racks five of them inside. I am going to power it with a electric hot plate and a old cast iron frying pan. Will put wet chips inside the frying pan and cook at ???Temp.

Want to smoke fish and chickens in it this coming year.

The best white leghorns I know of is Danny Feathers old line in Oklahoma over 30 years old and they where owned by a master breeder for 20 or more years. bob

 

[Cedarknob]

I would like to raise some Heritage fowl for eggs and meat...a sustainable flock. Where would you begin? I was thinking about Delawares but I have seen mention of other breeds more often. I would like to be able to smoke the whole chickens about 250 degrees all day. Would Delaware be a good choice for me or could you suggest something else? I was going to purchase my start from Meyers Hatchery...Do you have another suggestion? Is it economical to raise a dual purpose just for family use? What age would I butcher a dual purpose for smoking all day. Would this cooking method make the dual purpose meat tough.

Yes, my suggestion is to read a few posts on this thread. LOL

To me, the hatchery type birds just didn't cut the mustard as eating birds. If you're only looking at economics, my experience is that it's far cheaper to order chicks from a hatchery. If you're used to buying commercially produced poultry from the grocery store, you're going to be very disappointed with the dressed bird from a hatchery sourced Delaware and probably not much happier with a true, quality, heritage breed.

Arielle, this a cull Dark Cornish cockerel but from a show line. His breeder was nice enough to make an exception to selling her culls only for meat and I bought him and another for cross breeding into my blue egg laying project flock. [Still working on that and keep them as my source of eggs in the winter, plus they dress out as a nice, meaty table bird.] I fell in love with Cornish and now keep them as my meat flock. They are poor layers of small to medium sized eggs, slow growers, hard to get ready for a show as far as plumage, and I have often had poor hatch rates even though I never experienced the low fertility or inability to live breed that I read about here at BYC................ for certain not a breed everyone will enjoy. This bird is light framed, too beaky and poor headed, but that is all bird and not feathering you're seeing. [They have hard, tight feathering with no fluff underneath it and always weigh more than you think they're going to if you're used to handling soft feathered birds.]




The one below is not my bird, he's from another BYCer's flock [I know he also had some better and won at a show with them, I suspect this to be from one of the crosses he did] but he looks like the white laced reds that I got from a hatchery. I wouldn't raise Cornish, even if they had better type and heavier frame, if they didn't carry more meat than this one, and my hatchery sourced birds never dressed out much nicer than the same age Easter Egg cockerels I butchered on the same day.




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