Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Arielle]

If we hatch out production grade chicks before Memorial Day, which we do, yes, they will all be laying by Thanksgiving. That is why one has strains like this. Their purpose in life is egg production. If such birds are not in lay, and their leg coloring and feathering displays whether or not they are in lay, they serve no purpose and are culled before Christmas. No if, ands, or butts about it. This is a farm, so that's just life out here.

The heritage fowl hatched in April and May are NOT expected to enter lay until the following February and won't be judged negatively until March or April. The old line Barred Rocks take 32 weeks to come into lay and the old Rhode Island Red lines take 30 weeks as well. The roosters cannot be judged as to their worthiness until they are almost a year old. The slow feathering, slow growing, slow maturing aspect of standard bred, heritage line birds is such that there can be no hurrying. Hope that helps.

By the next fall, only breeder stock of the heritage fowl is fed through the winter. All I need is two males and 3 or 4 females. That's it. From them, over 50 chicks can spring. Economics play a big part of a successful homestead.

I didn't realize you hatched out the production lines that you have. I always pictured them arriving at your farm in a box ( the ISA's). I missed having eggs during the fall, so I am trying to figure out how to fill that hole, or reasonably fill that hole.

Rocks are a long time to mature as I remember, helps in keeping the feather pattern correct; real barring. ANd no history of being a strong winter layer, as I make sense of this. When you reduce the number of BR for the winter, do you always keep some pullets and a cckl, or does that depend on what grew out of the 50 chicks?

 

[Arielle]

Quote:

If I understand your method, you do not expect all your spring pullets to be laying by the end of December, but you do expect out put by March.? Is culling for production simply a yes or no vote? Or does rate of production influence the decission? Or even egg size?

My earliest hatches were marans, and they usually take longer to start laying then some other breeds. A couple of them started before the Solstice, and those are ones that I will keep and hatch for sure. A few others have started this week. Any that have not started by March will not have their eggs hatched, and will probably not be here by next winter. I'm starting over with marans after finding out the hard way that you can easily lose what you once had if you don't keep selecting for improvement.

For my use, production includes body size for meat, long period of laying and decent egg color. I'm not fretting about color patterns, side sprigs on combs, or the usual things discussed on marans threads, which is why I'm here. Eventually, I'll concern myself with egg size.

My marans always seem to be the most finicky of layers. Perhaps it is the location of their pen, under the trees. I'm trying to have a balance between going for the SOP and egg production. IT is a challenge. I have started to wonder if the marans have lost some of their meat qualities--- and I wonder this because of the emphasis on the eggs here in this country. Or perhaps they fill out later that 5 months when I want them in the freezer.

WHen are you hatching your marans?

 

[Fred's Hens]

We have bred our production line for 4 years. They are from ISA stock originally. We're very, very pleased with our line. We see no reason to buy "chicks in a box" ever again.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Our Reese Barred Rocks are laying very well in the winter, with no lighting supplementation. The Reds lay pretty good too. Not bad.

We do not need to carry 70 birds through the winter. It's tough up here. A dozen production pullets for eggs and the breeding stock of heritage birds, 6-8 Barred Rocks, perhaps and 7 or 8 Reds, that's enough. We have deep snow cover for almost 4 months. Carrying a heavy flock number through a long cold winter isn't a lot of fun. They eat feed in winter to generate body heat and there is no range/pasture. There is no practical or affordable way to carry more than is necessary.

A few years ago, we were more egg sales oriented, at least my wife was. We're evolving over time and egg production/sales is waning in importance to us personally.

 

[beaglady]

My marans always seem to be the most finicky of layers. Perhaps it is the location of their pen, under the trees. I'm trying to have a balance between going for the SOP and egg production. IT is a challenge. I have started to wonder if the marans have lost some of their meat qualities--- and I wonder this because of the emphasis on the eggs here in this country. Or perhaps they fill out later that 5 months when I want them in the freezer.

WHen are you hatching your marans?

I'm resisting the temptation to start hatching really early, to keep the electric bill down. I'm pretty much starting over with marans, after not hatching my 'old' cuckoos for quite a few years. I have one old roo left, and one old hen who only laid sporadically last year. I have a small group of larger sized cuckoos with decent egg color that I hatched last spring from shipped eggs. I expect to separate them soon and will be hatching from this group.

I also have a pen of blue coppers, and a pen of blacks, that I already have separated. I'm still undecided about these birds. They're a bit smaller, egg color isn't quite as good as the cuckoos. So far, one egg per day out of 3 hens. Too soon to tell. Both of these pens were from a combination of shipped eggs, and a blue hen with chicks I bought locally last year.

There are also 8-10 smaller blues & blacks that will probably end up on craigslist, unless they turn out to be prolific layers of super dark eggs. Even so, they may not stay. Undecided.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote: When the day comes to talk about Wyandottes on the new Thread this picture needs to show up there. Can you see the circle in this males all around type. In Reds we look for the Brick. In Rocks we look for the derby hat or the gravy bowl look. He is a nice birds and would love to mate his daughters back to him for two or theee years to fix this type. They have a good gene pool of birds. I am glad you have him.

 

[colburg]

I love the RC period, for looks and for winter efficiency. Arielle, you might be able to breed in a rc into your current flock as that's a dominant trait. I have an sc dorking rooster here who is hideous. I can't wait to get an rc boy to breed out rcs.
Mentoring. How does a person earn that carrot?
As for the land being a key, well, yes, of course. If you were going to look at your parcel with the eyes of someone who had to do it all by hand you would look for things like nearby water, cold sinks, drainage, wind breaks and soil types-- sometimes indicated by the trees available, and what trees you had to build with or harvest from. If you are looking, like me, to use your land for animals and you want them to forage a significant amount and successfully, then you are asking them to do what was expected of them a long time ago. To look through that lens changes how we plan and use property. It I owned this parcel I am on now I would put in a windbreak very quickly. This farm is 200 years old. The pond and old mill sites are fun... but not that useful without a working mill on them anymore. The fields are great for hay or grazers, neither of which I have. The chickens do have plenty of room and the orchard has merit. Even 200 years ago they were trying to do with what they could buy over what they had on hand. Beechnuts. Butternuts. Trees with nuts that used to be very valuable and more prevalent. Nearly gone. If there is a revival of chicken heirlooms it makes a lot of sense to have other heirlooms come along with them because of the 'circle of life' thing.

Why couldn't I have found this thread 4 months ago. I probably would have done several things different.

A few pages back, y'all were talking about old school homesteading in orchards etc. Marrying the land with the animals, that's the goal. We bought a 15 acre 600 tree pecan orchard recently and we're trying get it into homesteading shape. Don't get me wrong, it looked great when we bought it. The previous owners were very maticulous and kept it very clean. However, the ground didn't have a single blade of grass or weed.

A few of our changes include planting legumes throughout the orchard; white clover, yellow clover, alfalfa, possibly medics. Something on the orchard floor helps retain water, reduces wind erosion, legumes are a source of nitrogen. Chickens seem to be the next logical step in our progression. Cattle and sheep leave trails that will make harvest difficult, goats will eat the young tree leaves. Chicken manure has the highest availabe mineral content of all the manures. 3% Nitrogen, 2% phosphorous and 2% potassium. I also want to get away from Roundup and bug sprays. This year the brown marmoted stink bug caused damage. I've read that chickens will eat them, and I've read that they won't. We'll see.

Rearranging my thoughts on chickens:
Meat and eggs: two breeds or one DP breed? I like the idea that someone had before. 3 DP breeds, attempting SOP breeding every thrid year. Maybe just 2 breeds every other year.
Breeds I like so far. (Our climate is pretty warm so comb isn't an issue.) Delaware, RIR, NH, Black Austrolorp. Dorking? Open to others.

Anyway, that's a small glimpse of what we're working on. Sustainable chickens, not the hatchery chicks we ordered, are next. I don't want to order new ones every few years. I don't mind mutts, but like I've seen in someone's signature "If you're not breeding up your chickens, then they're declining" or something like that.


Thanks to all for your inputs, debates, and discussions.
colburg

 

[Cedarknob]

LOL, I finally figured out that not all heritage birds are dual purpose birds! THe cornish are meat birds, not layers. How many males and how many females in your flock of project birds?

I don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about my blue egg project line. I mentioned them because I wanted to point out that colony breeding, often scoffed at by show breeders, can have its place in breeding heritage breeds for their original characteristics. IMO, there is a tendency to concentrate on the appearance of these old breeds with a goal of breeding them towards a show win. We seem to forget that the way a breed looked had once only been dictated by its ability to perform back in the days that the breed was popular as a utility flock. Having a faulty comb or color faults only meant the individual was off type for the breed and not as likely to have the same production traits that the breed was noted for.

Yes, dual purpose once meant a breed had been developed with a compromise between egg production and meat production. With Cornish, no such compromise was made. The modern meat bird is produced from a synthetic blend utilizing female lines with a short life of heavy egg production bred to male lines developed to cross them with. That principle originally started with a simple cross of Cornish over dual purpose breeds such as New Hampshire, Plymouth Rock, or Delaware. A Cornish chicken's body is of meat type only; it is not a body capable of producing a good quantity of eggs, and to change them to a dual purpose breed requires changes to the shape that made the breed the ultimate meat producer. Heirloom Leghorns were once the ultimate egg producer but the cockerels made decent fryers. The modern production Leghorn lays even better, but the cockerels have even less meat than the heirloom breed did, and egg production drops off quickly after the first year

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Rearranging my thoughts on chickens:
Meat and eggs: two breeds or one DP breed? Well, one breed has definite benefits. If I could go back in time, I might make myself stop with one. Two breeds has advantages, though. This is just my two cents, but I find nice utility in selecting two essentially different breeds. The breeds you listed are all more or less the same. On grows faster, one tastes better. There's little different 'twixt a NH and an Australorp but the color. NH's come out of RI's, and Delawares come out of NH's. The Dorkings are one of our breeds. It is the best tasting of what you listed. They're all comparable weight-wise, and, historically, they should all be good broodies, save, perhaps the Delaware, which is really an industrial bird with not much in the way of farm reputation, so who knows.

If you must have two (like us, although we really have three at the moment). you might consider one of your aforementioned broody/meaty and a non-broody/egger, i.e. Anconas, Andalusians, Minorcas, Hamburg, Campines, Leghorns, Buttercups, etc.... They'll at least truly diversify your farm with a different product. We have Anconas and Dorkings, and they're a nice pairing. RI's and Golden Spangled Hamburgs? There's a lovely judge in ME who does Barred Plymouth Rocks and Silver-Spangled Hamburgs. Australorps and White leghorns? NH's and Redcaps?

I like the idea that someone had before. 3 DP breeds, attempting SOP breeding every thrid year. This will never end up getting you anywhere. It is in the yearly selection of the same breed year in and year out that helps you become a better poulterer. Besides, with the rate that progress is made, every three years would see you get there with one foot in the grave. Avoid raising more breeds that you have the facilities to raise properly. It's not about the land; it's about the facilities. Having 1000 acres does not mean you can do 6 breeds well. Each breed requires a "chick to breeder" facility infrastructure of appropriate pens, etc... Then, there's the work of attending to the needs of each breed. We have the facilities for four breeds. We currently have three. I often wonder what I was thinking in grabbing this third. I was safe with two...


Maybe just 2 breeds every other year. If this implies that you're really only set up for one breed, then just go with the one and do a knock-out job. There is a very distinct kind of beauty that a flock of uniform, single variety birds emits.
Breeds I like so far. (Our climate is pretty warm so comb isn't an issue.) Delaware, RIR, NH, Black Austrolorp. Dorking? Open to others. Almost any breed will do. There's a lot of hullabaloo made over this breed or that, but most large fowl, with a little (read "a lot") of spit and polish are farm worthy. Moreover, as has been mentioned, Mediterranean birds can be fine for the table. Our Anconas are delicious eating. Spatchcocked young cockerels on the grill are delectable, and the make great stewing fowl, fricasee, coq au vin, chicken cacciatore, chicken Marbella. They're not the most visually appealing roasters, although at the appropriate age they can certainly be roasted and enjoyed. One judge friend loves to ick up our Anconas and marvel at the weight and solidity they have. In short, get the breed that you're going to enjoy seeing in your space, and trust that one will do. It will become the hallmark of your farm.

 

[gjensen]

Colburg, I am on the other side of the country, but I used to make a trip to the Organ/Franklin Mts every year. I love it out there. Maybe I will make it for the "monsoon" come Aug., Sept.

All of Yellow House's suggestions tips are excellent. I wonder where he gets NHs and Australorps as the same, less color. LOL.

I would like to add that I like the idea of marrying the region with the breed. The Mediterraneans, particularly the Spanish breeds, are well suited for the South West. There advantages are not just egg laying and heat tolerance. They forage far and wide. A Spanish breed would be a good fit, for the South West, and they are an overlooked group in the suburban chicken movement. I would like to suggest Minorcas, Catalanas, etc.