Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[curious chickee]

So my daughter is going to do a project this fall for 4H and the local feed store. FF vs dry feed to compare optimal growth rate to get a market bird ready for fair. Trying to determine which would make the better champions. The question came up if FF is so much better why aren't the factories doing it or why aren't more kids using it for fair.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Well, that's an easy answer. Fermented feed is not designed for optimal growth it's designed for optimal health.

A simple example of this is simple volume/weight ratios. Let's say you have 2lbs of dry chicken feed split across two chickens, so each chicken gets 1lb of feed.
One lb of feed is our dry baseline, so it has a ratio of 100% nutrition/1 part weight/1 part volume. Each chicken can consume infinite nutrition but only limited amounts of volume, and to some degree, limited weight. So the dry feed has a ratio of 100%/1/1, and that's about what the chicken will eat in a day. They can only eat 1 part volume before they stop eating.

Then there's the 1lb of feed you ferment. It's nutritional content/absorption/etc and micro nutrients like antioxidants and good bacteria have increased to give a total increase of 10% additional nutrition. But it's volume has increased by double and it's weight has quadrupled. So the nutrition/volume/weight ratios go from 100/1/1 to 110/2/4.

So when you feed it out, the chicken on the dry feed consumes 1lb of dry feed, It gets 100 parts nutrition to it's one part volume. The chicken on the fermented feed gets 55 parts nutrition for the one part volume. But for the same amount of feed, you can feed the same chicken for two days instead of one. Chickens on FF tend to grow slower and eat less. They take longer to grow out and don't eat as much as quickly.

If your metric for success is fast growing big chickens, fermented feed is a bit of a flop. CAFO operations will raise a chicken in 6-8 weeks. Fermented operations are more likely to finish at 10-12 weeks. But if your metric for success is an inexpensive healthy bird, a chicken that feels the need to eat constantly will be healthier on FF because it will eat less and absorb more nutrition per lb of dry food. Your pen will smell better because the poop will have less nutrition in it to rot. Your birds will have robust, healthy digestive systems. The reduced weight leads to more activity. There's less waste of feed overall because they get more out of it. The FCR tends to be comparable despite the longer growth period.

So it's really more about what do you value. Incidentally, some brands of commercial chicken feed actually DO include fermented soybean, corn or alfalfa meal in their feed, just dried and pelleted. And large scale operations DO use these feeds. But they are less effective than live bacteria and they do not produce much healthier birds.

Most fairs only care about weight to age ratio, and that the birds can walk and are clean enough to not look awful. Health isn't a strong metric considered, whether it's in fairs or the commercial industry. And that actually creates a shuttle of people going from being kids interested in agriculture, going straight into the CAFO production system instead of exploring other more natural or otherwise healthier options. The only thing that is promoted as success in agriculture is bigger, faster animals. Healthy, robust, sustainable animals are not a metric of success in conventional agriculture and they don't make as much money.

 

[Beer can]

I ferment for cost savings. When I started fermenting I noticed a savings in my wallet, only 'study' I need.
The health aspects of fermented vs dry is a bonus. The savings of say Purina with prebiotics, probiotics 17% is $15- $17.
I get layer mash 18% from a local mill for $10 bag and ferment it. They already eat less just by fermenting it. And then I figure every third bag is free compared to TSC Dumor or Purina prices.

 

[Beer can]

I did read one big study on fermented feed that did not show any benefit. Only large scale study that I know of.
I believe what my own experience and savings has told me first hand though.

 

[South OH Chicks]

Well, that's an easy answer. Fermented feed is not designed for optimal growth it's designed for optimal health.

A simple example of this is simple volume/weight ratios. Let's say you have 2lbs of dry chicken feed split across two chickens, so each chicken gets 1lb of feed.
One lb of feed is our dry baseline, so it has a ratio of 100% nutrition/1 part weight/1 part volume. Each chicken can consume infinite nutrition but only limited amounts of volume, and to some degree, limited weight. So the dry feed has a ratio of 100%/1/1, and that's about what the chicken will eat in a day. They can only eat 1 part volume before they stop eating.

Then there's the 1lb of feed you ferment. It's nutritional content/absorption/etc and micro nutrients like antioxidants and good bacteria have increased to give a total increase of 10% additional nutrition. But it's volume has increased by double and it's weight has quadrupled. So the nutrition/volume/weight ratios go from 100/1/1 to 110/2/4.

So when you feed it out, the chicken on the dry feed consumes 1lb of dry feed, It gets 100 parts nutrition to it's one part volume. The chicken on the fermented feed gets 55 parts nutrition for the one part volume. But for the same amount of feed, you can feed the same chicken for two days instead of one. Chickens on FF tend to grow slower and eat less. They take longer to grow out and don't eat as much as quickly.

If your metric for success is fast growing big chickens, fermented feed is a bit of a flop. CAFO operations will raise a chicken in 6-8 weeks. Fermented operations are more likely to finish at 10-12 weeks. But if your metric for success is an inexpensive healthy bird, a chicken that feels the need to eat constantly will be healthier on FF because it will eat less and absorb more nutrition per lb of dry food. Your pen will smell better because the poop will have less nutrition in it to rot. Your birds will have robust, healthy digestive systems. The reduced weight leads to more activity. There's less waste of feed overall because they get more out of it. The FCR tends to be comparable despite the longer growth period.

So it's really more about what do you value. Incidentally, some brands of commercial chicken feed actually DO include fermented soybean, corn or alfalfa meal in their feed, just dried and pelleted. And large scale operations DO use these feeds. But they are less effective than live bacteria and they do not produce much healthier birds.

Most fairs only care about weight to age ratio, and that the birds can walk and are clean enough to not look awful. Health isn't a strong metric considered, whether it's in fairs or the commercial industry. And that actually creates a shuttle of people going from being kids interested in agriculture, going straight into the CAFO production system instead of exploring other more natural or otherwise healthier options. The only thing that is promoted as success in agriculture is bigger, faster animals. Healthy, robust, sustainable animals are not a metric of success in conventional agriculture and they don't make as much money.

So what does this mean regarding egg production?

 

[Mosey2003]

So what does this mean regarding egg production?

I forget where I found the study, but I read one on this and it said that feeding fermented will delay point of lay by about two weeks, but that the eggs laid will be heavier than those from non-fermented fed birds.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

So what does this mean regarding egg production?

Well, that's a lot more complicated since egg chickens self-regulate a lot more. Egg hens have a tendency to go and seek out what they need, and have a more varied diet, especially free range, and meet their nutritional needs more easily. Basically, an egg hen (generally) eats until it's nutritional needs are met then keeps eating if it's bored or peckish, whereas a typical broiler eats until it physically can't eat any more then sleeps and repeats. With a fermented diet, the egg hens basically get more nutrition out of less feed, because they're not just trying to cram volume and weight until they can't any more. You might see things like more active birds, more robust immune systems, better absorption rates for minerals (so thicker eggshells, etc.), their poo may be more digested and break down faster, they may be more robust in hot, dry weather because they have lots of water in their diet, there might be fewer pathogen loads because of intraspecific competition between bad bacteria and good bacteria, etc. I find that it gives much higher feather quality, for example. Black chickens that get irredecent sheen on their feathers are a good example. Black FF hens tend to be a little bit shinier than the black hens that aren't.

But frankly, I find these results hard to tell apart from just overall good chicken management in egg hens. You get similar results from just having more free-range hens, or a more stimulating pen, or good outdoor access, a more varied diet, etc. But I think the benefit for egg hens is that it's just one more step in an integrated management process for healthy birds. Chances are good you won't see any major difference in your egg production, you will see some minor savings from feed, but your birds will have that one more barrier between them and being sick or injured or picking up a parasite, etc. It's a tiny barrier, nowhere near the dramatic effects of meat chickens, but it's there.

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

I ferment for cost savings. When I started fermenting I noticed a savings in my wallet, only 'study' I need.
The health aspects of fermented vs dry is a bonus. The savings of say Purina with prebiotics, probiotics 17% is $15- $17.
I get layer mash 18% from a local mill for $10 bag and ferment it. They already eat less just by fermenting it. And then I figure every third bag is free compared to TSC Dumor or Purina prices.

yes I agree totaly
Well in my opinion you will get more for your Dollar with using the fermented feed in labs off meat conversion on a FM fed chicken crop.
As for our Hens they are 10 yearlings and have been laying 9-10 eggs a day for long time.

 

[ShannonO]

My FF trough has attracted gnats. My chicks at 6 weeks and have been in the coop eating FF 2xday for two weeks. Yesterday they didn't eat their food (and yesterday was a very hot day). Today I relized the trough is full of gnats (fruit flies)? I dumped that food out, cleaned the trough, refreshed the bedding, and fed new FF. No luck.

A couple girls seem to be itchy (but it is hard to say).

Any suggestions? I want to keep feeding the FF but don't want them to have to deal with a gnat swarm to eat...

 

[Molpet]

My FF trough has attracted gnats. My chicks at 6 weeks and have been in the coop eating FF 2xday for two weeks. Yesterday they didn't eat their food (and yesterday was a very hot day). Today I relized the trough is full of gnats (fruit flies)? I dumped that food out, cleaned the trough, refreshed the bedding, and fed new FF. No luck.

A couple girls seem to be itchy (but it is hard to say).

Any suggestions? I want to keep feeding the FF but don't want them to have to deal with a gnat swarm to eat...

I feed what they will eat in 20 min 2x a day... no gnats or fruit flies ... they are just added protein anyway and do not cause itching.. a funnel w/edges sealed in a bottle w/AC vinegar is a good fruit fly trap.