Fishbiotics SMZ-TMP or Aqua SMZ-TMP

[KClivlaughlove]

(EYP-Palpative Care for remainder of her life)...(see attached images)

Personal experiences, preferences, thoughts,ECT. Please?!

2nd-For the calcium...Will this work?

Calcium Gluconate 23% for Animal Use​

3rd-What to do in place of the Gabapentin which was given for inflammation and pain???

(SEE PICS OF MEDICATION REGIMAN PRESCRIBED)....
1-Vet pulled fluid from abdomen and tested for which antibiotic would be best suited for the type of infection(s) she is and will continue to deal with for the remainder of her life.
2-We know for FACT they work (when ran out, she was off for about 2 weeks and all symptoms immediately returned)

The only reason we are no longer able to take her to that vet is because it is a two and a half hour drive one way and she requires for us to return every 14 days & therefore provides only 14 days worth of medications each time, most importantly is the bill out the the door of $200+ each visit. They can no longer afford the 400 plus month to continue this care we refuse to put her down and so long as we are continuing the care she needs she's not in any kind of pain she does very well she acts normal runs plays does all the things the rest of the clock does. And we certainly can't afford anyone or all three in total surgeries ranging from two to $5,000 each with no guarantees that it would at help her.
So yes, please any thoughts ideas suggestions personal experiences etc would be greatly greatly appreciated!!!

I do not know what I'm doing as far as posting in the right places or under the correct threads etc so please bear with me if I'm doing it incorrectly.

 

[dawg53]

I've never dealt with EYP, but others have. Here's a link for you to read, which might help:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...e-of-survival-question.1377277/#post-22634926

 

[coach723]

Based on her symptoms I'm not sure why the long term calcium, did they say why?
You can use the SMZ-TMP, I've used it and had no issues. Looks like they are dosing 52.8 mg 2 times a day, (anyone is welcome to check my math, please!). Plumbs veterinary drug handbook gives the dose of the suspension you have as 2 mg per kg (2.2lbs) of body weight, twice a day, so assume your dose is based on the weight of your bird. You would just need to divide up your capsules or tablets into the correct dosage. I empty or grind them up and mix in a little softened (not melted) coconut oil, divide equally into the correct amount of doses and freeze them on parchment paper. Makes a custom pill that goes down pretty easy. There really isn't a good non prescription pain/inflammation medication, most commonly it's meloxicam, which also needs rx. Aspirin can be used, but does come with the risk of bleeding, so that has to be weighed into the decision. I very rarely use pain medications myself on my birds. CBD oil can be helpful and it's gotten easier to get, if you want to try that and can get it where you are. It's not inexpensive but I've used it on my animals for cancer and arthritis and felt it was helpful.

 

[KClivlaughlove]

Based on her symptoms I'm not sure why the long term calcium, did they say why?
You can use the SMZ-TMP, I've used it and had no issues. Looks like they are dosing 52.8 mg 2 times a day, (anyone is welcome to check my math, please!). Plumbs veterinary drug handbook gives the dose of the suspension you have as 2 mg per kg (2.2lbs) of body weight, twice a day, so assume your dose is based on the weight of your bird. You would just need to divide up your capsules or tablets into the correct dosage. I empty or grind them up and mix in a little softened (not melted) coconut oil, divide equally into the correct amount of doses and freeze them on parchment paper. Makes a custom pill that goes down pretty easy. There really isn't a good non prescription pain/inflammation medication, most commonly it's meloxicam, which also needs rx. Aspirin can be used, but does come with the risk of bleeding, so that has to be weighed into the decision. I very rarely use pain medications myself on my birds. CBD oil can be helpful and it's gotten easier to get, if you want to try that and can get it where you are. It's not inexpensive but I've used it on my animals for cancer and arthritis and felt it was helpful.

Which form and strength and how did you administer the CBD oil (oral?) I can get that EVERYWHERE here via oil, gummies, tablets ECT... However, now that I think about it lol would be best as she is my crop impact and sour crop repeater, has been the entire last 2 years of her life...she is now 4½ish
No preference on which brand of the fish Smz-tmp brand?
As for the dosages, are you stating the vet dosed incorrectly for the liquid type? Beings it is 800/160 for the tablets (fish), and her liquid is 200/40 (exactly ¼ of the tablet form)? 1st script was 1.5ml twice daily, second time around was 1.3ml twice daily.
Lastly, calcium is once daily and she didn't explain why only that the fluid in her abdomen did have lil bits of yolk so she stated she's either internally laying or crud now I just forgot the other possibility.

 

[coach723]

I have always used oral CBD. For my dogs I got it here:
https://www.k9cbdoil.co/
because I have very LARGE dogs and this was the most affordable for the dose needed. It appears they are currently out of stock.
There are topicals that would be good for sprains, strains, or other localized inflammation. Dosing is not really exact with them. I would start with a few drops, slowly adjust until you feel like it's helping. The CBD's don't contain THC so there really isn't an upper limit you need to worry about. You can find websites with all kinds of dosing advice, it's pretty unlikely that you would do any harm regardless. I dosed my dogs by weight, and often gave more. Cancer sucks and so does severe arthritis, so comfort was my goal. There is generally no interactions with other meds to worry about, and I used it in combination with prescribed pain and inflammation meds with no issues.
For the SMZ-TMP I buy whatever brand is in stock for the best price/shipping I can find. Have never had any issues with any brand I've used. I was not saying the dosing was wrong, if it's working I would use the same dose your vet prescribed. They may have very good reasons for the dose they chose. I was just giving what Plumbs says for reference. I've given higher doses on occasion with no ill effects. If you see a drastic change in droppings, then the dose might be too high. I don't have a vet that will see birds, so I use Plumbs for dosing and adjust as needed.

 

[KClivlaughlove]

Do you have a web link for plumbs?

 

[coach723]

I tried to attach the PDF file here and for some reason it's not letting me.
You can download the 6th and 7th editions here:
https://www.vet-ebooks.com/veterinary-plumbs-drugs-handbooks/

 

[KClivlaughlove]

I tried to attach the PDF file here and for some reason it's not letting me.
You can download the 6th and 7th editions here:
https://www.vet-ebooks.com/veterinary-plumbs-drugs-handbooks/

I tried to understand the info in the link you provided. I've downloaded the whole thing (almost 5000 pages), but it's way over my head. I still need help in understanding how much of the fishbiotics 800/160 tablets to give her twice daily to equal the 1.5ml of the 200/40 oral suspension she was prescribed. Please help me to understand how you came up with 52.8mg? Image below is the oral suspension (RX only) she was prescribed at 1.5ml twice daily. I realize exactly ¼ of a tablet is equal to three oral but how do I figure out how much of that ¼ tablet=1.5ml of the ¼ tablet... Does that make sense what I'm trying to ask?

 

[coach723]

I redid my math, honestly I don't remember what I did the first time....
That instills confidence, I'm sure.
On the small bottle of sulfatrim (picture on the right), it says 240mg/5ml, so for every 5 ml it contains 240 mg of medication. Divide 240 by 5 (how many mls), get 48 mg per 1 ml. At a dose of 1.3 ml, what it says on the bottle, that is 62.4 mg of medication 2 times a day.

The bottle of SMZ-TMP solution pictured (left picture) is 200mg/40mg per 5 ml. That is 200 mg of sulfamethoxazole and 40 mg of trimethroprim per 5 ml of the liquid. So, same math, divide by 5 you get 40 mg of sulfa and 8 mg of trimethroprim per 1 ml of liquid. So 1.5 mil of the liquid would be 60 mg of sulfa and 12 mg of trimethroprim.

If your SMZ-TMP tablets are 800/160 mg each, you would get 13.33 doses per tablet (800mg divided by the 60mg needed, and 160mg divided by the 12 mg needed = 13.33).
At twice a day, that would give you 6 days of doses per tablet, with a little left over.

What I do is grind up the tablet (I use a mortar and pestle) and mix the ground up tablet well into an amount of softened (not melted) coconut oil that I can divide easily into the number of doses. I would just do 12 doses for simplicity, the small amount of extra won't hurt anything divided into that many doses, but if you are not comfortable with that, make 13 doses. Put them on parchment paper and freeze them. You can take them out of the freezer at dose time and pop them in her beak and push back a little and she'll swallow it easily. Those doses and the math are based on the amounts your vet prescribed. I will tag another member to check my math and make sure I have not made any mistakes there!

@casportpony , will you kindly take a look and make sure I have not destroyed the math on this?

 

[KClivlaughlove]

So have you given this to your chickens before in the method you described above?
I haven't seen that the person you asked to double check your math has responded yet.
I chose to go with the original 1.5 ml dose the vet first prescribed, rather the 1.3ml dose (of the oral suspension) she decided at second visit because she's gotten worse now than she was at that 1st visit.
Unfortunately the vet will not give any info over the phone period. She insists on in person visit with my very I'll gal that as stated is a copay of over $200 and a 2½ hour drive (one way). I just need to get the dosage figured out quickly before I lose her! Thank you for your help. Would you mind running through it one last time for me and whatever you consider is what I'll try, she don't have much time left, she's getting way too bloated too fast having been without any antibiotics now for too long!