free-range chicks dying randomly?

[Anonymous__]

I started a new thread in the predator category: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/free-range-chicks-disappearing-and-becoming-wobbly.1576954/

 

[TropicalBabies]

I started a new thread in the predator category: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/free-range-chicks-disappearing-and-becoming-wobbly.1576954/

Can you post photos?

 

[McChooky]

I'm sorry, I thought keeping your birds alive was the topic since thats what you're asking for help with. Whatever you've read is false, they're too young and snack sized yet for free ranging. Nobody here is arguing, I'm giving you my experienced and researched advice on something you may have not thought of.
They're growing right now and need more nutrition than they can find with freeranging.

I look forward to letting my leghorns free range with my older hens when they're much older. They'll be 2 weeks old Tuesday so they're in my bedroom.

 

[Anonymous__]

I'm sorry, I thought keeping your birds alive was the topic since thats what you're asking for help with. Whatever you've read is false, they're too young and snack sized yet for free ranging. Nobody here is arguing, I'm giving you my experienced and researched advice on something you may have not thought of.
They're growing right now and need more nutrition than they can find with freeranging.

Also, I am free-ranging them to get use to the outdoors. They aren't just eating grass if that's what you are imaging. They have 24/7 acess to food, water, grit, shelter, and heat. If you are trying to give advice, I am curious about how you said free-ranging young chickens doesn't make them more predator smart. May I see the evidence you have for that?

 

[BastyPutt]

Also, I am free-ranging them to get use to the outdoors. They aren't just eating grass if that's what you are imaging. They have 24/7 acess to food, water, grit, shelter, and heat. If you are trying to give advice, I am curious about how you said free-ranging young chickens doesn't make them more predator smart. May I see the evidence you have for that?

I know this is an old thread, but we free range our chicks with their mom, and that would be the only way.

We have over 100 free range, wide open pasture chickens right now, with less than 25% of them having spent their entire life as you suggest.

A chicken is an incredibly instinctual animal. You could raise a chicken in a 12x12 cage for the first year of their life, then plop them down outside and they would be doing free range chicken things in short order. I know this because we recently adopted a dozen, 2 year old battery cage hens from an egg farm - and if you can pick them out of the flock, I'd give you $200 - because it's impossible.

They aren't like a whale who has been caged in SeaWorld for 50 years, they will do what needs to be done to survive.

In terms of being predator smart... a chicken wasn't gifted anything in terms of defense - not even roosters. It really doesn't matter how aware your free range chickens are, because by allowing them open space, you are making them "sitting ducks". Which is fine, I do it - but you generally need to be prepared to lose some if this is you choice. Aware or not, chickens will be killed if a predator happens upon your flock.

In terms of catching whatever is doing it, you'll most likely need to - if you haven't already - set up cameras. Predators are very smart, and aside from leaving clues as to what they are, you likely will never see them with a naked eye.

 

[Anonymous__]

I know this is an old thread, but we free range our chicks with their mom, and that would be the only way.

We have over 100 free range, wide open pasture chickens right now, with less than 25% of them having spent their entire life as you suggest.

A chicken is an incredibly instinctual animal. You could raise a chicken in a 12x12 cage for the first year of their life, then plop them down outside and they would be doing free range chicken things in short order. I know this because we recently adopted a dozen, 2 year old battery cage hens from an egg farm - and if you can pick them out of the flock, I'd give you $200 - because it's impossible.

They aren't like a whale who has been caged in SeaWorld for 50 years, they will do what needs to be done to survive.

In terms of being predator smart... a chicken wasn't gifted anything in terms of defense - not even roosters. It really doesn't matter how aware your free range chickens are, because by allowing them open space, you are making them "sitting ducks". Which is fine, I do it - but you generally need to be prepared to lose some if this is you choice. Aware or not, chickens will be killed if a predator happens upon your flock.

In terms of catching whatever is doing it, you'll most likely need to - if you haven't already - set up cameras. Predators are very smart, and aside from leaving clues as to what they are, you likely will never see them with a naked eye.

I know chickens will be instinctually predator smart most times because it's in their DNA but they tend to be smarter if exposed to the outdoors sooner in life. Chicks start exploring away from mom (not completely but they aren't always under her) when they are 3 days old so from that point letting them have a place to explore would benefit them but people wait a bit until their older so that they would be bigger and less likely to get taken by a predator or die of getting chilled. Also, mom teaches the chicks to forage, hide, and explore. If they are already doing that, what's the problem with letting them do that outside with more space, food, and experiences? I found the thread that talked about how someone raised chickens outside before they have all their feathers and that flock didn't die to predation while the other flock the person had who was raised normally fell victim to predators. I found the thread if anyone's interested in reading more into it: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/successful-100-forage-diet-experiment-long-post.1435544/

Also, I'd definitely take that $200 bet, I've caught many flighty chickens including Leghorns before but I know it's just for arguments sake.

 

[McChooky]

I know chickens will be instinctually predator smart most times because it's in their DNA but they tend to be smarter if exposed to the outdoors sooner in life. Chicks start exploring away from mom (not completely but they aren't always under her) when they are 3 days old so from that point letting them have a place to explore would benefit them but people wait a bit until their older so that they would be bigger and less likely to get taken by a predator or die of getting chilled. Also, mom teaches the chicks to forage, hide, and explore. If they are already doing that, what's the problem with letting them do that outside with more space, food, and experiences? I found the thread that talked about how someone raised chickens outside before they have all their feathers and that flock didn't die to predation while the other flock the person had who was raised normally fell victim to predators. I found the thread if anyone's interested in reading more into it: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/successful-100-forage-diet-experiment-long-post.1435544/

Also, I'd definitely take that $200 bet, I've caught many flighty chickens including Leghorns before but I know it's just for arguments sake.

I followed that thread while it lasted.She didn't have a cold climate and had many acres for them to free range on.They hadn't raised any chicks yet when she quit posting so we don't know it they survived or how her experiment ended.

 

[BastyPutt]

I know chickens will be instinctually predator smart most times because it's in their DNA but they tend to be smarter if exposed to the outdoors sooner in life.

If a fox or coyote runs up onto a free ranging flock, birds are going to die. Unless they can run into a structure that automatically locks behind them, they will be killed. There is no way around it. If this isn't the case, what will a predator smart bird do? I suppose they could fly into a tree. But any predator, will continue to return everyday until all the chickens are gone.

We have dogs that help keep the chickens safe. But also so many chickens that we may lose some, and I would never know.

I found the thread that talked about how someone raised chickens outside before they have all their feathers and that flock didn't die to predation while the other flock the person had who was raised normally fell victim to predators

i read this thread, and really enjoyed it. But shortly after the fact was concerned about people trying to replicate it.

In order to understand why the comparison you make isn't a great one, you need to really understand a wild carnivore.

They are expending a tremendous amount of energy a day, and not only need a lot of food, but need easy food. In this case you have two flocks - one that is confined, and one that is free. The fox would have no problem catching the free birds, but they see an easier source of food in the barn flock. If the barn flock didn't exist, the free range flock would fallen pray. Again, there just aren't many options for a chicken in terms of safe haven. And even fewer when they are so young, without parental support.

To add to that, a raccoon kills for sport. Should a family discover both they would continue killing them all until every single one is dead.

Also, I'd definitely take that $200 bet, I've caught many flighty chickens including Leghorns before but I know it's just for arguments sake.

The point I was trying to make.... you can't tell the difference between the battery cage hens, and the chickens who have free ranged their entire life. They both forage, dust bathe and survive the same - despite one group having spent the first two years of life in a tiny cage.

I can catch all the birds. Just takes a handful of treats and a net

 

[Anonymous__]

If a fox or coyote runs up onto a free ranging flock, birds are going to die. Unless they can run into a structure that automatically locks behind them, they will be killed. There is no way around it. If this isn't the case, what will a predator smart bird do? I suppose they could fly into a tree. But any predator, will continue to return everyday until all the chickens are gone.

We have dogs that help keep the chickens safe. But also so many chickens that we may lose some, and I would never know.

i read this thread, and really enjoyed it. But shortly after the fact was concerned about people trying to replicate it.

In order to understand why the comparison you make isn't a great one, you need to really understand a wild carnivore.

They are expending a tremendous amount of energy a day, and not only need a lot of food, but need easy food. In this case you have two flocks - one that is confined, and one that is free. The fox would have no problem catching the free birds, but they see an easier source of food in the barn flock. If the barn flock didn't exist, the free range flock would fallen pray. Again, there just aren't many options for a chicken in terms of safe haven. And even fewer when they are so young, without parental support.

To add to that, a raccoon kills for sport. Should a family discover both they would continue killing them all until every single one is dead.

The point I was trying to make.... you can't tell the difference between the battery cage hens, and the chickens who have free ranged their entire life. They both forage, dust bathe and survive the same - despite one group having spent the first two years of life in a tiny cage.

I can catch all the birds. Just takes a handful of treats and a net

Many predators could have the determination to come back, yes. But it wouldn't matter if they can't catch the chicken in which case they would realize they are wasting their energy and give up. As you stated, they can fly to the barn, house, tree, etc. A fox can't jump into the trees my chickens can fly into. I had a hen fly over 100ft without gliding downward. I know she would have no trouble foraging on her own but unfortunately she died in her coop from a dog break-in a few months ago. Also, I had all my chickens die in their enclosure one night, not because anything broke in but because they saw a predator and were in a enclosed space where they couldn't get away so they panicked and ended up dying by flying into each other and the ceiling. Also, we can both agree that the barn flock in the posted thread had more deaths because they were slower and more susceptible to an attack. That's exactly my point. Raising chicks outside makes them less likely to fall prey. They would have better instincts since they were raised to handle the outdoors like how people raised in complex environments tend to form a mindset that can help them figure out how to get what they want rather than a kid who was raised with everything given to them and thus can't do much their selves.

 

[BastyPutt]

Many predators could have the determination to come back, yes. But it wouldn't matter if they can't catch the chicken in which case they would realize they are wasting their energy and give up. As you stated, they can fly to the barn, house, tree, etc. A fox can't jump into the trees my chickens can fly into. I had a hen fly over 100ft without gliding downward. I know she would have no trouble foraging on her own but unfortunately she died in her coop from a dog break-in a few months ago. Also, I had all my chickens die in their enclosure one night, not because anything broke in but because they saw a predator and were in a enclosed space where they couldn't get away so they panicked and ended up dying by flying into each other and the ceiling. Also, we can both agree that the barn flock in the posted thread had more deaths because they were slower and more susceptible to an attack. That's exactly my point. Raising chicks outside makes them less likely to fall prey. They would have better instincts since they were raised to handle the outdoors like how people raised in complex environments tend to form a mindset that can help them figure out how to get what they want rather than a kid who was raised with everything given to them and thus can't do much their selves.

I hope the best for you and your future flocks.