GRAPHIC PICS of my day learning to caponize

[HaplessRunner]

I would like to express my sincere appreciation to Maggiesdad for dedicating a Saturday to teach a novice an old time art.

As I told Maggiesdad, the difficulties that we ran into on several birds were particularly educational. You always learn more from the hardest lessons rather from than the easier material. I certainly had quite a few learning experiences today. But I must say, that processing the number of birds and practice that I got certainly gave me the confidence to go forward on my own.

Even though there were extra hands to help, I suspect that we invested a lot more time to do these birds than with out the "extra help". I really do like the Chinese tools and believe that they were really a good investment. The retractor is fantastic!

One of the bigger challenges that I noted is getting sufficient magnification and light with which to work. I had a headlamp but it always seemed to be at the wrong angle when you had to move in close. With respect to magnification these almost 60 year old eyes needed a double set of glasses! I was wearing my computer glasses and put on a stronger set of reading glasses over them. Having sufficient magnification allows you greatly refine your movements during the surgery.

Once again, many thanks for investing the time and effort to train this newbie. I owe you a couple of cream legbar pullets!

 

[Poco Pollo]

Yard Art

 

[BCMaraniac]

Is the area numbed at all?

No, they aren't anesthetized. My experience has been for the most part they complain more about their feathers being plucked at the incision site. I have had them pick at food crumbs that had fallen onto the operating table during the procedure.

Their perception of pain is quite different from ours. I had a hen that hid to brood a clutch of eggs. She showed up without chicks and returned to the flock. I thought something wasn't quite right because I couldn't catch her. When I finally caught her, she had a hole on her side that extended into her abdomen that was full of maggots!!

And she was still eating and drinking! After seeing that, I told my hubby that I would never again let somebody try to make me feel guilty about caponizing.

They are definitely wired differently than we are.

 

[Gryphon]

No.  Why did you ask this question?  I don't understand what I said that made you think that.

The reason they think that is because you came off as highly aggressive and dismissive of someone who came into this thread with a legitimate question. It IS NOT a given that caponizing is legal. As someone else said, in certain countries it is illegal, and I'm willing to bet in certain states or even down to certain towns it's illegal according to local law. Telling someone in so many words that they're stupid for asking something. Especially when they made clear in their second paragraph that they're intrested in the process. Instead you jump the gun and accusing them of being some sort of peta extremist. When you react that strongly to someone with a legitimate question, you appear as if you think anyone even concerned about the welfare of their animals is only worthy of scorn. Some of the people in this thread are interested in caponizing not because of the benefits to the meat, but because of the benefit to the animal's life (since roosters are fated to a short trip to the chopping block unless you have the land for them).

I've been following this thread since the beginning because it interests me, and the progress that people have made in here is fascinating. I'd hate to see people get run out of this thread instead of accepted in and educated. Yelling at someone and making fun of them teaches them nothing, and this thread (or so I thought) was all about education and sharing.

 

[Poco Pollo]

Most often, with the younger cockerels, the testicle will stick to the thread so that it comes out with the thread when the base is cut. If the thread comes out and the testicle "pops" back in, it's probably still attached, at least on one side. Forceps will be the best tool at this point to grasp the testicle and remove it carefully.

If you're caponizing older birds, put your spoon tool in under the testicle before you start to saw. It's difficult to retrieve a testicle if it falls down into the bowls.

I hope this information is helpful. I've got a few cockerels being raised by broodies that need to be caponized next week. I'll try to get some pictures.

 

[QueenMisha]

This thread looks a little dead so I thought I'd liven it up. Did 12 cockerels today. They were maybe 13 weeks. Cochins, Orps, Welsummers, and Olive Eggers. Lost one Wellie but otherwise pretty good. Tested out my tools from Poco Pollo the first time and found them PHENOMENAL. I think I have maybe 1-2 slips at the most which is awesome because my main issue in the past has been slips. Also, after many times of two-siding it, I was able to do all but three cockerels one-sided today! I feel I made huge progress today and am thrilled.

 

[CindyinSD]

Well I did one of my roosters. Poor little guy was so easy to catch I figured he was sick. I turned him over to put him in the cone and he died right there, before I even cut him. I did cut one side, to make sure but his heart had already stopped and the blood just dribbled out. At least it was quick. He had sour crop. Foul smelling ick was coming down his beak.

It was so cold (suddenly), and the wind came up from the south that it was hard to work on him. Of course there was no need to worry about keeping the carcass useable since he was sick. I had an awful time finding the right place to cut. (I had him with his left side up.) I found lungs (too far forward) and intestines everywhere. (They were blown up like long balloons--I can only imagine how miserable that was!)

I finally did find a teste. It was so deep! But there it was, shining out--a beautiful little bean-shaped yellow thing with tiny bright veins all over it like complicated lace. I might have tried to photograph it, but the cold wind blew away my senses, apparently. It never even occurred to me. I would estimate it was about an inch long and maybe 3/4" wide, very plump and super fragile. I tried to get it out with the triangle-shaped forceps. They couldn't hold on to it. I knew from my reading here there was an additional membrane around this gland preventing me from accessing it, but I could not see the membrane at all. I ended up rupturing the gland, trying clumsily to twist it out with the forceps and just gave up on it at that point.

On the other side I again found a lung on the first try! I could not palpate the ribs however hard I pushed, and though I wet the area, my visibility didn't improve. The skin and muscle tissue were thicker than I had imagined they would be. I never found the left side teste (by that route) though I did cut between the last two ribs (finally). In the end I gave up and pulled up the keel and found it nestled among the puffy (but empty) intestine "balloons."

So yeah, kind of a failure, but I learned (more or less) what I was up against and certainly where not to cut. As far as I can tell there are no images available online that show the skeleton of a male chicken in relation to its internal organs.

I've made a red dot to indicate the teste's approximate location. If you go too high you'll hit the little "y" branch that angles off to the right. Try to palpate and start your cut just below it. It needs to be a long enough cut to admit and open the rib spreader (retractor) without tearing the muscle tissue. You should see the teste near the top of your cut. It may not be yellow, but it should be bean-shaped. The size will depend on the bird's age.

Next time the weather will be nicer and hopefully I won't forget about my camera again. I have two more extra roosters. If that's not enough practice I'll probably sacrifice as many cockerels as I need to, to become proficient. I don't want to be doing this on a live bird until I'm confident I know what I'm doing. Hey, 1-2 lb cockerels are at least the size of quail. and people do eat quail, right?

 

[CindyinSD]

How are your 'patients' this morning @CindyinSD ?

They're doing great! I could hardly catch them in the brooder this morning. Their great gaping ouchies are remarkably healed. I had to look for them. Soon I think they'll be nearly impossible to find. When I brought them out to their tractor they literally jumped from my hands. Hmmm... I wonder why they were so eager to get away from me?

 

[CindyinSD]

A quick update on my capons... Three are exhibiting signs that they are slips, so I need to either use them for stock/soup or butcher them soon. The remaining two look like nice, plump dumplings--neither like hens nor like roosters . So, I guess they were maybe successes? (Thus far, at least.)

It is time to caponize my four pullets. They're near POL. I'm vacillating over what I want to do with them. With the Chinese Flu and the rioting and all, lots of people want chickens. I may advertise them on Craig's List and find out what people are willing to pay. They're not pretty--just plain black birds with a very small amount of iridescence, so maybe not all that much. If they don't go inside a week, I'll withdraw the offer and go on with my previous plans to sterilize them. I sure don't need more layers.

I also have a bunch of mixed chicks growing out--thirty or so, I think? They'll all or almost all have rose combs from their papa so it may be a bit tricky figuring out boys from girls, but I'll be caponing the males and likely poulardizing the females unless I decide to sell some of them.

Here is my current group of capon candidates:

There are six (one is hiding). I plucked the surgical areas last night and will be caponing sometime later today. I'd be doing it right after posting this, but I am old and have CRS disease and somehow STILL had 12 hours in my head as the water fast period. So they will have to wait a bit. They won't be without water for the full 24 hours, but they'll be close.

These are Light Brahmas. They weigh 2 lbs each, so they're just at the upper edge of the desirable weight range. Hopefully they're all males. I removed one that weighed 2.5 lbs for my breeding rooster and one whose bones felt more delicate and who has always been more retiring, as the sole surviving (presumed) female from the hatch. These all feel very robust and have a "cock-sure" attitude. I'll be cutting the left side first in case I'm mistaken. (The functional/developing ovary is on the left side.) If I see that any of them are female, I will send that one to recovery without removing anything.

I don't know whether poulardising at this age is feasible, but in any case, I want any females for breeding. If I've made a mistake in sexing, I guess that will give me a chance to see whether or not I can see the fallopian tube yet.

Update later.

 

[CindyinSD]

Okay... I am bummed. No, I didn't kill any. The first one was good. I got two testes out whole. Second one was going well until I dropped the second teste. I couldn't find it. I couldn't keep poking around either. So after a few minutes I gave him a second leg band and called it a slip. After that, every single one had an ovary, not a teste. The last one I didn't have the heart to cut, so she or he is intact either way. Maybe I'll try later, if it definitely starts looking like a male. I had watched the feather development on these, and from that I believed I had one female and the rest males. the combs were all very similar. Next time I do rose-combed birds, I'll definitely wait until I can be more sure of their sex.

The testes were still quite small (about 4-5mm long) and would still easily fit between the ribs when pulling them out. Next time I will wait until they're showing secondary signs like a redder comb, etc.

BTW, the ovaries were shaped like an elongated wedge and were (in these birds at least) a creamy white color. They had a granular texture similar to the lung tissue you'll see if you cut between the wrong set of ribs (instead of the last two.) The lungs are also unmistakably pink, in case you haven't seen them while butchering.

So... I have one capon and a slip. (sigh) And an unknown, and three girls who are probably pissed at me, understandably so... Sorry, girls. Plus I have another seven Lt Brahma pullet chicks I ordered because I thought I had nearly all boys.