HEADS UP AVIAN INFLUENZA ALERT

[TalkALittle]

It's also about human health. We are one mutation away from this being transmitted to humans. USDA is not the only organization testing. They are also sending samples to the CDC where genetic testing is conducted to see if the virus has mutated. Each depopulation order has as much to do with the safety of human health and the prevention of a pandemic as it does the health of the commercial poultry industry.

 

[MrsBachbach]

It's also about human health. We are one mutation away from this being transmitted to humans. USDA is not the only organization testing. They are also sending samples to the CDC where genetic testing is conducted to see if the virus has mutated. Each depopulation order has as much to do with the safety of human health and the prevention of a pandemic as it does the health of the commercial poultry industry.

Mutation is very unlikely to happen in a backyard flock is what I have read. The numbers are not there. Mutation is much more likely to happen in the commercial flocks where there are thousands of birds. That and money in the farmers pocket is the reason they depopulate those flocks.

 

[chicknmania]

Therry, I hope the tests come back negative for AI, and I think having them checked was the right thing to do. We're worried up here in Michigan too, and also had a West Nile case nearby recently. Bug repellant and watching out for birds this year for sure. And see what's in my farm pond this spring! Mary

Poultry (at least chickens) don't get West Nile.

 

[chicknmania]

I'm sad to see there is so much hate for the state poultry vets and the USDA. When we respond to possible AI cases, we are not falsifying test results, nor are we marking a flock positive for no reason. Depopulation zones have been shown to be an effective method of controlling AI in other countries. I believe the study was done in the Netherlands, but I'll have to see if I can find those papers again. When I get a chance to research it, I will be sure to post the published papers.

I agree that depopulation is very very sad when it happens to farmers. I have not spoken to a vet or USDA representative who enjoys making those calls, but when that is the law, it means the vet's license is on the line. I did ask my advisor about penalties for those who resist the USDA in the face of a depopulation, and she said it is a federal offense, so we are talking serious stuff here.

I do think the media is making this a bigger deal than it actually is. Biosecurity is definitely a good idea, but that should be a constant thing, not just during times of outbreaks.

If people have more questions and I can't answer them myself, I would be more than happy to ask my advisor. Her primary field of expertise is AI and I pick her brain often with questions. I learn a lot that way and I think education is the best way to kept the paranoia under a bit of control!

The USDA has brought the hate upon themselves, by all their bad calls. Not only with the chickens, but I have heard from some of my wildlife rehab friends that the USDA has made some really boneheaded decisions in their field, also. I mean to the point where you're scratching your head and saying "Huh???? ***!!!!" And why the USDA has involved themselves with that field at all, is a mystery.

 

[chicknmania]

AMEN!

I'm in Nebraska.

I don't trust the news outlets or media as far as I can spit at them. Somewhere along the line, they stopped being sources of trusted, full, information, and became glory hungry entertainers. They latch on to a high profile story and run only the exciting, knee jerk, bits, and only tell half the story. I've seen the real story more times than I can count, and then have seen what a news channel has done with it. Only to abandon it the second a bigger, fresher story comes across the wire. (Ever notice that?) Heck I LIVE here and that farm that had its quarantine lifted was on in the last 30 seconds of the newscast. When it went INTO quarantine it was the #1 story.

The population mass has no other choice than to believe what is on the glowing box in front of them. The media makes it sound like birds all over the country are dropping like flies, like we will run out of eggs, or all birds are deadly. I have YET to see them do an actual detailed story on HOW this is spreading in factory farms (but not backyard farms). They rarely mention that while wild birds are carriers, but not active cases. They don't mention what is being done to find a cure or vaccine, which you KNOW is being worked on. They only mention the number of birds on a production farm being culled, not all of which HAVE AI, but may have been exposed. NOR, do they explain how some of the most bio-secure factories in this country CONTINUE to have these outbreaks year after year.

This is NOT to say that I believe that AI isn't very, very serious. The economic impact it is having on the mass production egg and meat farms is great, as they have a few birds go down and need to slaughter and entire production run. And the risk to backyard flocks is real as well, but I wonder if the more genetically diverse backyard flocks and free rangers have a higher natural immunity than those that never see the light of day. Kind of like letting your kid go to daycare, where they pick up all the kiddie cooties and build up an immunity for life to some of the more common ailments out there.

I DO KNOW, we need not panic, nor should we be attacking each other over differences of opinion or our personal farm management styles. We are all we have, and we all get our love and devotion, and financial expense and dependence on our birds.

Love, hugs, and cackleberries.

Absolutely true. What's a cackleberry?

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Mutation is very unlikely to happen in a backyard flock is what I have read.  The numbers are not there.  Mutation is much more likely to happen in the commercial flocks where there are thousands of birds.  That and money in the farmers pocket is the reason they depopulate those flocks.

This is just not true. Mutation can happen in any flock, big or small. It's not just about mutation in one flock, but spread to other flocks and wild birds. Remember that while low path AI may be a silent infection in wild birds, high path is deadly in ALL birds. It is also highly contagious. It only takes one mutation to go from low path to high. This is why AI can start out as low path and by the end of the week become high path within the same flock.

It is not just about individual flocks. As backyard farmers, many of us do not practice tight bio security. As another poster mentioned, we go to the feed store, to friends houses, etc. all it takes is ONE virus particle. ONE. To spread to other birds, both wild and domestic. A sparrow or mallard could pick that up and spread the virus to who knows how many other sources. THIS is why depopulation is so important. The AI virus may not be able to survive long outside the environment, but just because a flock comes up negative the day the tests are run, does not mean two days later there won't be a positive. The virus can still be spread via fomites (objects or people on which the virus can travel) a few days after the virus is picked up by that object.

I think there is a lot of misinformation or lack of understanding when it comes to the epidemiology of this virus. That alone explains why controlling this virus swiftly and efficiently is so important. It is not that the USDA does not care about small flock owners, but leaving this uncontrolled is a disaster waiting to happen. Look at what happened to the swine industry when the swine flu epidemic happened. The industry tanked and it was determined the virus had not even originated in pigs. In fact, it was a human virus transmitted by workers in swine barns that gave it to the pigs. That industry is still seeing the effects.

So yes, it is about money and te poultry industry, but it is not JUST about that. As another poster mentioned, this is about public health and wildlife health just as much as it is about preventing this illness in the animals. This affects every single one of us, whether we own chickens or not. The cost of chicken products (eggs and chicken can be found in so very many things!), the wildlife this will affect, as well as the keeping of chickens as pets. It is a very multifaceted issue, which is why the USDA is also monitoring wildlife. You cannot control disease without monitoring ALL sources, and right now migratory birds are a major issue. Biosecurity in wildlife centers is just as important as they are on poultry farms.

There are some great books out there describing the epidemiology of avian influenza, which I highly recommend. Many can be found right on the Internet as PDFs. I think it is important to understand these concepts fully in order to even begin to understand why these decisions are being made.

In the instance of the backyard flock owner on BYC who was originally ordered to depopulate his flock - yes, he originally tested negative, but the fear was that the virus could be still be present somewhere on his farm. It is much easier to depopulate a high risk negative flock than it is to take the risk of having that flock later test positive and then having to test and depopulate flocks around him. In that instance, he was the only one in the area that was high risk due to the shipment of eggs, but had he come up positive in the course of quarantine, the problem would have been so much larger and could have ultimately been prevented with depopulation in the first place. He was very lucky, but there is a good chance of any high risk farm not being so lucky. So to alleviate the response needed, depopulation of negative flocks is sometimes a necessary evil.

 

[WthrLady]

Cackleberries are EGGS!

Genetic mutation, be it a complex organism or a simple one, can occur ANYWHERE and at ANYTIME.

 

[Briza]

Cackleberries are EGGS!

Genetic mutation, be it a complex organism or a simple one, can occur ANYWHERE and at ANYTIME.

Yes, it can but if you think about it the way you think about odds in a lottery then the more birds you have, the more tickets you bought.

 

[TalkALittle]

Yes, it can but if you think about it the way you think about odds in a lottery then the more birds you have, the more tickets you bought.

Yup. But some schmuck can still buy one ticket and end up winning the jackpot. Statistics are about determining probability but there are always outliers.

 

[Bo Garrett]

Whether you hate them or not the USDA has a job to do and the only boneheaded move they have made is to not get on this faster and shut down interstate movement of birds until this is over. Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana, etc.... are a few examples of states where grown birds, eggs or chicks were shipped and now have this devastating virus. As for my farm, I allow no visitation and never have, birds taken to shows are quarantined for weeks before reintroduction to the main population this is the only wise thing to do. I will not show nor will I buy, sell or otherwise until this as completely passed. While Oklahoma has yet to have a positive test for AI in this outbreak we have border states that have seen this come to pass and I do not want it here. Each person here is culpable for the decisions they make and have to live with them, if you wish to test the statistical odds then so be it, I will play it safe and continue to raise my birds as securely as I possibly can and when this is all over hope that shows are still allowed and that interstate shipping and moving of non-commercial birds is a reality.