Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Wisher1000]

You know, I hadn't considered that.....hmmmmmmm

 

[3riverschick]

Hum,
A lot of opinion on what the actual genetics should be for the Delaware. I had always thought it was Light Sussex with Barring. eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co B/B . But cartists post was very interesting. So is the rendition of the genetic history of the breed. In many ways it reminds me of the Light Sussex. The LS was made out of 3 different breeds. 2 were eb based and one was eWh based. The classic lit in the early part of last century has the LS breeders trying to figure out how to get rid of the brassiness in their birds. As the years went by they went thru several theories (it was the weather, rain, sun, feed that caused the brassiness) and a lot of culling. By the 1930's we just don't see the brassiness discussed any more. I have a theory about that. I think the early breeders were using the art of breeding ( as it pertained to what they saw) and were actually moving the breed from eb/eb or eb/eWh to eWh/eWh by combating the brassiness. Once they got the Silver Columbian LS to a pure eWh locus, the brassiness disappeared as it will with 2 copies of eWh and the breed moved on to other matters. This is also the first time I have read of the Pattern gene being involved with the Delaware. That's real interesting. According to their genetic history there's quite a winnowing job to extract a proper Delaware from that foundation. Whew! My hat's off to ya'll who are working at it!
Best Success,
Karen

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Hum,
A lot of opinion on what the actual genetics should be for the Delaware. I had always thought it was Light Sussex with Barring. eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co B/B . But cartists post was very interesting. So is the rendition of the genetic history of the breed. In many ways it reminds me of the Light Sussex. The LS was made out of 3 different breeds. 2 were eb based and one was eWh based. The classic lit in the early part of last century has the LS breeders trying to figure out how to get rid of the brassiness in their birds. As the years went by they went thru several theories (it was the weather, rain, sun, feed that caused the brassiness) and a lot of culling. By the 1930's we just don't see the brassiness discussed any more. I have a theory about that. I think the early breeders were using the art of breeding ( as it pertained to what they saw) and were actually moving the breed from eb/eb or eb/eWh to eWh/eWh by combating the brassiness. Once they got the Silver Columbian LS to a pure eWh locus, the brassiness disappeared as it will with 2 copies of eWh and the breed moved on to other matters. This is also the first time I have read of the Pattern gene being involved with the Delaware. That's real interesting. According to their genetic history there's quite a winnowing job to extract a proper Delaware from that foundation. Whew! My hat's off to ya'll who are working at it!
Best Success,
Karen

And that's just the color. The mythology of the breed promises so many nice elusive things beyond easy-plucker feather color.

As we're on the topic of Columbian pattern, I came across an interesting article from Poultry Journal of 1956 discussing the feathering rate of Delawares and New Hampshires ... for a while the link took you right to an image of the 1-page article. Now it doesn't. But here is the citation, and maybe some of you with research credentials can get to it ...

Late Feathering Closely Linked with Columbian Color in ChickensPoultry Science (1956) 35 (2): 490

If I remember the gist, the inspiration question was "Why do Delawares feather so slowly?" And the research chosen to investigate was to mate some Delawares (slow feathering) with New Hampshires (faster feathering). They hatched nearly 2000 chicks ... which they sorted into piles, fast & slow for each of Delaware-like & New Hampshire-like ... I wish I could remember more than that ... and found that most of the New Hampshire-like chicks were faster feathering, while most of the Delaware-like chicks were slow feathering. I think they got like 15 fast-feathering Delawares out of nearly 1,000.

The conclusion is that the Columbian pattern is a poor conductor for the fast feathering gene. But ... I'm confused as the New Hampshires also carry the Columbian pattern gene.

So ... I now I'm curious about the feathering rate of Light Sussex ... and to a lesser extent, the feathering rate of other Silver Columbian pattern birds. Perhaps without the confounding of the barring genes (slow), there's no concern?

 

[neopolitancrazy]

Quote:
Here is my (purely theoretical) opinion, based on my reading, not on actually owning any of the strains in question.

As I understand it, it requires the barring gene plus at least one slow-feather-growth gene to make the crisp barred look of a show/SOP Barred Rock. If you combine the barring gene with fast feather growth, you get the slurred cuckoo pattern, like a Dominique. I believe the BR barring is sex-linked, and I am certain most slow-feather-growth genes are sex-linked, so it may be difficulty to separate slow feathering from barring, (unless you started with a slurred BR.) I don't believe the Columbian (color distribution) gene is responsible for the slow feathering in the Delaware, I think it hails from the slow-feathering sex-linked BR barring.
Quote: Karen, this was from a Dutch author, (translated into English,) who related lots of info on autosomal barring, very little on sex-linked barring, so take that assertion with a grain of salt.

Any one reading this who wishes to correct my understanding is more than welcome to do so. I am very new to this approach to breeding chickens.

Best wishes,
Angela

 

[finnfur]

This has been extremly interesting information on the Delaware - Keep up the great conversation and now I need to understand it - Thanks

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I hope someone can access the article and explain what they were thinking with the both the experiment and their conclusions. What little I've read suggests the slow feathering and barring have been cultivated to go together as then you get better barring. Not sure if that can be undone. For sure you don't need awesome barring in a Delaware. So I'm not remembering/understanding why the Columbian was the focus of the experiment. Maybe because the diagraming of the cross suggests you'd get a certain percentage of fast feathering Delaware-like birds, but the experiment produced much lower numbers, suggesting there is some extra inhibiting factor involved ... which for some reason (possibly explained) they attributed to the Columbian????

The nugget I found fascinating was that you did get SOME fast feathering Delaware-like birds out of the cross. That could maybe be useful to someone capable of hatching thousands of chicks looking for just those few to use in a Fast Delaware line.

Cuz starting over with Delawares is such funzies.

 

[Ifish]

Another fantastic discussion here on BYC.

As I understand it, New Hampshires are a Colombian pattern, only red in color. So is it the Barring that slows down the feather? If so, how did a small percentage of delaware like birds in the cross exhibit fast feathering?

The Delaware was a very good broiler for a period of time. So it must have matured and feathered at a decent rate.

 

[finnfur]

Has anybody read what the market age of the Delaware was in its commercial heyday - I have never been able to find it. ?

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Not specific to Delawares, but this is a chart of historical market ages and weights for broilers. http://www.nationalchickencouncil.org/about-the-industry/statistics/u-s-broiler-performance/

The Chicken Of Tomorrow contest was in '48 - '49, and that's when stuff really started to change with meat birds.

 

[Ifish]

Has anybody read what the market age of the Delaware was in its commercial heyday - I have never been able to find it. ?

I have read that delawares were market weight by 12 weeks. I have not read what the actual weight was by 12 weeks.

Whitmore farm:

Quote: So if you go by the ALBC Market weight (this is me using these numbers, not whitmore) that would be 5.5-7.5 lbs at 12 weeks. Back in the day broilers we less than 16 weeks old and weighed less than 4 lbs on average.

Ihave been to Whitmore farm, but I did not get to discuss any specifics, but the Delawares were meaty looking.

Other reading I have done states that today a Delaware will weigh in at 15 weeks, what a modern broiler weighs in at 6 weeks.

So, It's not specific numbers, but should give a general idea. Hopefully someone else has some real data and will share it.