Human anti-viral meds for Mareks -- has anyone else tried this?

[Sonya9]

Well I put the young EE pullet back on Valtrex. As soon as I bragged about how well she was doing and how there was no sign of a reoccurrence the symptoms came back.

I thought I noticed her limp getting a tiny bit worse 2 days ago, fortunately this chick is NOT stoic, if she doesn't feel well her little tail points straight down. Yesterday her tail was down and she was definitely limping a bit more.

I gave her a dose last night and plan to keep her on a daily dose for a couple of weeks at least.

I also sent an email to a guy in France that wrote a lengthy scientific article on the pathways used by MDV to spread. I figure those guys would probably have a very good guess as to if valtrex would work as there are numerous studies out there comparing the DNA and similarities of the various herpes viruses.

 

[Sonya9]

From this post of yours and one a few pages previous, I don't think it's too likely to be any other way.

I think you're right, does sound like he realized what kind of hot water he was in and basically dropkicked the problem to the winds. I hope I'm not judging him harshly or unfairly but some situations and actions are so suss... What else can one think?

He invested a lot of money and time into getting those birds, no doubt, why suddenly drop it all. I wonder what happened.

On a side note, the lady my vet put me in touch with called me today (she bought birds from the same breeder and has had many deaths, some with classic Marek symptoms).

Her paralyzed bird passed away and she was driving to have a necropsy done at a state sponsored lab near by. We talked about tests specifically for Marek's as a necropsy may not show anything. She called the breeder and his attitude was "It's not Marek's, and if you think it is show PROOF".

To me that is a "less than concerned" attitude. She is peeved and if that test comes back positive (or even if it doesn't) this guy is going to have some reputation problems. At the very least we will see to it he NEVER sells chicks at the local store again (the store folks are clueless about this stuff but many if not most chicken owners in this town do buy chicks there every spring).

Lots of folks have latent illnesses and diseases in their flock, but selling sick birds knowingly, and selling off all breeding stock while denying their is any problem is a bit beyond the gray area IMO.

 

[seminolewind]

Get used to not trusting anyone but yourself. I've even read on here some people who were big into showing said they had it but it didn't matter because all birds have it. The feed stores are clueless-it's very easy to say yes, they're vaccinated.

If you hatch your own, vaccinate and quarantine or buy day old vaccinated hatchery chicks and quarantine, those are the safest you can be. Anything else is a chance. I had hatched all mine and gotten a few from a hatchery . I stupidly bought One pullet from a breeder. Now I have Marek's for life.

 

[Sonya9]

Get used to not trusting anyone but yourself. I've even read on here some people who were big into showing said they had it but it didn't matter because all birds have it. The feed stores are clueless-it's very easy to say yes, they're vaccinated.

If you hatch your own, vaccinate and quarantine or buy day old vaccinated hatchery chicks and quarantine, those are the safest you can be. Anything else is a chance. I had hatched all mine and gotten a few from a hatchery . I stupidly bought One pullet from a breeder. Now I have Marek's for life.

Most show people probably do have Mareks in the flock. If they spend a ton of money and possibly even spend decades developing their own line of show birds they are simply NOT going to abandon the birds due to one or two deaths, they will suffer the losses and end up with more resistant birds as a result. Plus while show birds are NPIP tested that does not screen for Mareks, when a hundred or more birds end up in the same room from all the country then yeah, they probably are all exposed.

For me, I don't breed and I don't want to deal with chicks. A local hatchery sells fully vaccinated laying age pullets which is a good option, or I might just stick with getting adult birds. I recently got an older leghorn hen (was vaccinated at the hatchery), the lady told me she was about a year old but I think she is likely at least 2 years old and if that is the case I may not see many eggs from her. The owner was moving and had sold off all her other birds. Poor bird was kept in a cage her whole life, she fit in with my flock immediately and loves having a large run to graze in; even if I don't get a lot of eggs at least the bird has a better life.

 

[chooks4life]

I recently got an older leghorn hen (was vaccinated at the hatchery), the lady told me she was about a year old but I think she is likely at least 2 years old and if that is the case I may not see many eggs from her. The owner was moving and had sold off all her other birds. Poor bird was kept in a cage her whole life, she fit in with my flock immediately and loves having a large run to graze in; even if I don't get a lot of eggs at least the bird has a better life.

If she's a quality leghorn you should get eggs for longer. Isabrowns are the worst I've ever seen for quitting at two or under years of age, the leghorns I've had were still laying two-a-day at 2 years old and stepped down to one a day for the next two years (and then I sold them on, still laying, lol).

I agree, most people most likely do have Marek's, but for me the safest option is not to vaccinate, but to let the weakest die without breeding them. I did that to begin with and haven't had problems since, because those weak birds are not still alive thanks to vaccine protection so they can pass on their weakness and produce more weak birds to suffer.

I know breeders that are vaccinating regularly and still losing stock every year to things they've vaccinated against; to me, that's a never-ending battle they can't win because they can't spot and weed out the weakest because they're protecting them at all costs. Protecting the weak at all costs carries the risk of helping to make the weak a far larger percentage of the flock than they would ever naturally be, even coming to comprise the whole flock, so it becomes an even bigger issue with more suffering than would otherwise occur. I know it sounds unethical to not vaccinate to some people, but in the long run breeding disease-susceptible animals is less ethical IMO. Better a few die than whole flocks.

(Different of course if all you've got is pets or extremely rare birds, but I do think the overall notion of how Marek's is being 'tackled' needs a bit of reconsideration). The trend, even according to the people that research and make the vaccines, is not improving at all.

It does sound like the breeder knows he's done wrong and is acting defensively, and the most you can really do is alert other people. Good luck with that.

Best wishes.

 

[rebrascora]

Well my girl is continuing to make progress albeit very slowly. On occasion in the last couple of days she has actually been perched (using one leg) on the edge of the nest box which is an old wooden drawer and today, after she laid her egg this morning, I put her and her pal out in the sunshine and I actually saw her walk.... it was a lame walk and only a few strides but never the less both feet went down flat. She is still having the "fits" when she gets excited, when I go to feed her but on the whole I am definitely seeing a little improvement.

How is your girl doing now she is back on the anti viral meds?

 

[Sonya9]

That is great to hear she is starting to walk again!

My girl, the lame one, has stayed on the meds all of this time. Obviously chickens must tolerate them well since she was in bad shape, and a prime candidate for liver/kidney failure especially since my dosing is not very accurate.

She slowly improves, but compared to her horrid condition weeks ago (still can't believe she survived that) she is doing great. I also think she is gaining weight though I don't have a scale, her breast bone is no longer obviously protruding when I handle her. She certainly eats like a queen, egg, chicken feed, rice, pinkie mice, vitamins, etc... She is not standing but her legs, even the right one that was completely paralyzed for a long time are starting to get movement back.

Fingers crossed, though I know things can change for the worse in a day. Video of her enjoying some outside time yesterday....

I also talked to the lady that had her Marek's bird taken in for a necropsy, the state lab vet told her "all flocks have Marek's" and he is testing for a huge variety of things. This guy does nothing but test sick/diseased birds in this area and I have heard he has told other people about the prevalence of Mareks in this area. I told her she was brave to let them test "for a bunch of things", since if the birds test positive for the Avian Flu the state may come to her house and take them all! LOL I would be too paranoid about state seizure if they found something dangerous to humans or commercial flocks (and no i wouldn't care about the risks to all of humanity).

 

[lalaland]

This is very interesting to read, and so glad you are all sharing this info.

This spectrum of care - from immediately culling at first sign of illness all the way to the other end of caring for a paralyzed hen for a year or more.....is so difficult to evaluate for me. Rationally, I want to go to the old farmer saying, "the best cure for a sick chicken is a spade" but emotionally I'm much closer to doing everything I can.

Usually shakes out to providing the best care I can until quality of life goes negative.

 

[seminolewind]

Me too Lalaland. The deciding factor for me is if they are eating or not. I do separate them out because they need closer monitoring. And it seems like every time I put a particular cage back in the shed, another one gets sick. So the cage will stay on the patio from now on. Last week I had put the cage away and said to hubby, wait, watch another one will need care and sure enough, ms. broken leg needed the crate. Sheesh.

 

[rebrascora]

Great to hear that your girl is making some progress too and perhaps putting on some weight.
It's really interesting to hear the state vet's opinion regarding how common place Marek's is. I appreciate that he is only commenting on his locale but I think it probably applies most places. I believe that it is something which needs to be more generally accepted so that the stigma is removed and people discuss it more openly. Too many people wont accept that they have it or cull birds that show signs or just accept that hens die and don't bother to figure out why.

It was lovely to see your girl enjoying some out door time. Her behaviour/posture is so very similar to mine. My girls hammer the grass as soon as I put them down on it, even though it is pretty sparse. If I put mixed corn/feed down the other hens come and push them out/intimidate them, but they get plenty of corn and fermented feed in the sick bay, so the bit of time they get to spend outside is better used for other things like eating grass and sunbathing. I had a bit of a panic today as I put them down in a small walled paddock in a sheltered sunny spot up against a wall and when I went back 15 mins later there was no sign of them. I looked all around the farm yard and was beginning to really panic when I found the two of them snuggled up in a little nook where there are some old pallets and they were poking about looking for bugs. They had moved about 20 yards from where I left them, so perhaps she had managed to walk that far although more likely that she crawled. It is great that they have bonded so well though and find places to forage together. It did do my heart good to find them happily ensconced together in a little secret spot where there was still plenty of sunlight and shelter but more safe from their perspective than out in the open where I had left them. They are not stupid! In fact considering their poor mobility I was amazed that they had found such a perfect spot in the limited area I had given them.

I know what you mean about being wary of official inspection and I'm possibly of a similar mind with regard to human vs animal welfare.