Human anti-viral meds for Mareks -- has anyone else tried this?

[rebrascora]

I spoke too soon. Hoppity and Hope had a falling out yesterday and Hope was being so mean to her last night that I had to put Hoppity in the rabbit hutch. She was doing a nervous twitch with her head and neck that I have not seen before. Hoppity's Marek's has been stable since last Sept so this does concern me. I don't know if the twitch has prompted Hope to have a go at her, or the twitch is as a result of them falling out and her being picked on. I really hope it is a temporary falling out as they have been so good for each other. Even though Hope was the most badly affected, she has integrated back into the flock more effectively and is happy to muscle her way into the scrum for food, whereas Hoppity hangs around on the edge waiting for me to give her special attention.

I was putting a cover over my cage (a lump of tin sheet with a brick on it) when the weather was wet and I made a little tunnel shelter for them inside it using an old ceramic half round drain pipe chocked up on bricks which they started using as a nest box once they started laying. It also gave them a safe place to snuggle in if I didn't get back to put them away before dark.

Lily does sound like she is making the same progress as Hope. Keeping my fingers crossed that Poppy picks up soon as he doesn't sound good. My cockerels that exhibited symptoms all recovered pretty quickly without tlc and from what I have read, pullets are more likely to succumb to Marek;s than males, so I do hope that Poppy isn't the exception. Do you feel able to do a necropsy on him yourself if he goes, or send him off for one. It's something that is worth thinking about now and preparing for. It's really helpful to learn from what you find. For me, the tumours I found confirmed Marek's in my own mind but also that I had done the right thing in culling her. It also gave me a mental bench mark for when I needed to take that decision. I appreciate that it is not something everyone can do, but I found it really helpful.

Good luck with both Poppy and Lily. I'm rooting for them both.

Regards

Barbara

 

[alibabba]

Quote:That's funny!!!

I do the same stuff, I think we all do..."use the tools available". Good to know that my contraptions aren't so weird as I think.


Thank you again for the kind thoughts.

I by no means want to hijack this as my own personal journal, so I will move further ramblings somewhere else...

But, Poppy's neck this evening was noticeably(to me) looser. He has been enjoying sitting in a medium dollar store dog dish Works great!

I took them out of the pen(and the dog dish) to give some colloidial silver water drop by drop from the syringe.

Poppy worked so hard to get in position to eat. I propped him, this way and that way, but he got it. And pecked and pecked and pecked, until it was just about dark. I would have put them away sooner but I did not want to interrupt that!!! It was an hour I am sure. So he got gamebird showbird, scratch, a little bit of steel cut oats in that dish that I dumped some silver water on to help him grab and swallow.

I was AMAZED!

I am so bad biosecurity...whatever. This isn't a lab. But what kept them at it was the other D'Uccle hens coming over to the dish with them. Just like you said. Its a social thing. If those hens say it's good...it must be good!!!
On the necropsy...I sent the pullet who passed to the State Avain specialists Everyone was so helpful along the way. She was ill for a day or so, no paralysis, just standing around. Brought her in and she lived only another few days. It was Marek's, microscopic tumors throughout... I have done many dissections in school... rat, sheep heart, frogs etc. I don't think I could do it. I will send again. Necropsy with multiple tests... $40. Shipping $65. So well worth it. Perhaps these two were vaccinated....on the to do list to see if the chicken dealer can find out. He has multiple suppliers and seems to keep very good records.

 

[lalaland]

alibaba, those pics are great - I can see exactly how to get them propped up. when I had the rooster, I couldn't get him supported so he would stay upright and be able to eat. Now I can see how to do it. the cups hanging over the edge are perfect too.

Hope Poppy improves.

If you move to a different thread, the mareks not an emergency thread...just a thought.

 

[alibabba]

Thanks. I went through 10 NASTY shoeboxes with old rag clothes, before I used the little plastic tubs and paper towels, just dampened so they wouldn't slip.

Hey and thanks to this thread, I realized I should do like I do for everyone in the snow and rain....give em an umbrella I have a pretty big one from the thrift store...I always watch for them when I shop, because they are nice to put up and down as I need to. Chickens seem to appreciate them.

 

[chooks4life]

Don't have much info of any use to add so I will just watch and learn what I can. Good luck to everyone. I've been doing some research on plants that are anti-cancer, but won't hijack the thread.

Good on you for getting a necropsy and testing done, @alibabba , at least now you know for sure. Interesting that she went down so quick without any paralysis. Wonder how many chooks die after showing such symptoms while people continue to assume their flocks are clear.

Best wishes.

 

[alibabba]

Thanks so much Chooks. I'm so torn as to which direction to take. Breed for immunity or vaccinate everything. I really was so clueless getting into chickens. Maybe like many...


If it was something I did wrong...like dirty or cramped housing, or bad feed, or neglect...but it's not. These are free range in my yard, housing is good, food and water is good and plentiful.


My brain has gleaned from the amazing amount of reading it has processed, says... it truly is in all flocks. If not now (maybe you just got chickens) it will be soon. If you think you don't have it, you probably do.

So. I'm thinking.

1. I can buy only vaccinated chicks. There will be losses, and carriers. (no natural chicks without vaccine by me day 1)

2. I can buy adults (carriers with immunity). It might to be the more sustainable route because of the fast mutations (right word?) of this virus.

3. I can quit chickens and get into ducks or another resistant domestic bird that is not too loud...

I am not a quitter. I'm gonna try B.

 

[chooks4life]

Quitting animals altogether is the only way you will escape the threat of having permanent carrier status of serious diseases. Among animals, anyway, but there's also that risk with humans too of course. And plants. And everything else biological you might want to get into, lol... Every species has their own equivalents of Marek's. The details differ but they're all serious diseases that are common and produce permanent carriers. I'd guess you know that, though.

I'm very much for breeding for resistance, seems to be the only real way forward at the moment. Good luck with your trials in it.

Best wishes.

 

[Sonya9]

I'm very much for breeding for resistance, seems to be the only real way forward at the moment. Good luck with your trials in it.

We aren't trying to fix the world, we are only trying to do what we can to save the cherished birds that are ill with this horrible disease.

Hardly scientific but I have used antivirals (valtrex) on three birds. Coincidentally all three came from the same breeder, two were Faverolles with gentle temperaments, and social stress triggered the illness IMO.

All three have passed on. Having said that the two that had valtrex early in their symptoms never developed paralysis. Any symptoms they had before treatment remained.

It isn't a magical cure however if any of my birds are injured or sick I do plan to use it as a preventative. One thing appears to be true, Valtrex was well tolerated and none died from the drug.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: Love the cups!
I tried geese but there's just something about chickens.

 

[chooks4life]

We aren't trying to fix the world, we are only trying to do what we can to save the cherished birds that are ill with this horrible disease.

I know, but treating already diseased birds I consider a separate issue to preventing the disease, which in my opinion hinges on breeding for resistance (not propagating susceptible stock using bandaid solutions); that's the type of moving forward I was referring to, a future in which this disease fades in significance compared to its current status, and stops taking so many lives. I believe it's totally achievable.

We may also move forward in learning how to treat already sick, susceptible chooks, and I very much hope we do; however that's a separate issue.

Hardly scientific but I have used antivirals (valtrex) on three birds. Coincidentally all three came from the same breeder, two were Faverolles with gentle temperaments, and social stress triggered the illness IMO.

Personally I don't think it's a coincidence your patients all came from the same breeder. They were probably vaccinating against Marek's and therefore wouldn't have known which of their breeding stock were resistant and to what degree if so. Hardly their fault, I'm not having a go at the breeder or anything, they're doing what's generally considered to be right if they're vaccinating against it.

Mine have been through enormous amounts of regular stress and the resistant birds have never come down with Mareks', and I select for lovely and docile, non-aggressive temperaments too, and sometimes they've had to put up with a lot of social stress and other stresses as well. Main difference there being I don't vaccinate against Marek's so I quickly found out which of mine were susceptible, and removed those family lines. Doesn't seem to me that resistant chooks come down under anything less than a perfect storm of stress and illness, and even then they tend to die of other things instead.

Best wishes.