Hypothermia?

[Lskellenger]

We are "new" to raising chickens. We have a raised chicken coop inside a large fenced in range area. The coop was built by a reputable designer for up to 16 chickens. Roosting and laying spaces are provided, fir shavings are the current bedding. We feed good quality layer rations. We started with 14 birds, we lost two to predators during a free range day. Then we lost two to what we feel was hypothermia but this is where the questions start...The chickens are closed into their coop every night, in temps of below 30 degrees a heat lamp is provided. water is primarily outside of the coop, unless it is very cold, then water is moved into the coop. The coop is 4x6, sturdily built with a pull out floor for easy cleaning. a two inch gap in the roof line to provide ventilation. The doors do not "seal".
Yesterday we woke up to a significant drop in temp from the previous night. Although the heat lamp was on, we found one dead hen, and four more in stages of what seemed like hypothermia. We brought them inside to the basement to warm them slowly. We ended up losing all of them. in the very end, they thrashed and seized. We were obviously devastated. The remaining five birds seemed ok. we covered the coop with a blanket and tucked it into the eaves. Left the heat lamp on, it was about 40 degrees outside temp with no wind, so I left the coop door open to allow them to choose to be out or in. We came home from work to two more dead. Shortly after we lost two more. I now have only the rooster, whom had to be brought in for the fear of losing him as well. Please advise! My husband thinks it may be some sort of poison. I feel that it might be to many drafts inside. I don't recollect having this many problems raising chickens growing up. I am extremely upset and do not want to bring more Chickens home until I get this figured out. Is It hypothermia? Can it happen that quickly and can it be avoided? Should I insulate? Do I need a coop that sits on the ground? All deaths occurred in a short time, and ALL birds are free of any visible signs of disease. They were of healthy weight, beautiful plumage, and of different breeds. We love our birds, we want to be good caretakers but want to do it well and succeed with the correct shelter and or feed, Should we "re-home" the rooster in the mean time, we do not want him to e lonely or fall to the same fate. any help is appreciated!! (the hens were about 10 months old and 5 months old)

 

[Beekissed]

We are "new" to raising chickens. We have a raised chicken coop inside a large fenced in range area. The coop was built by a reputable designer for up to 16 chickens. Roosting and laying spaces are provided, fir shavings are the current bedding. We feed good quality layer rations. We started with 14 birds, we lost two to predators during a free range day. Then we lost two to what we feel was hypothermia but this is where the questions start...The chickens are closed into their coop every night, in temps of below 30 degrees a heat lamp is provided. water is primarily outside of the coop, unless it is very cold, then water is moved into the coop. The coop is 4x6, sturdily built with a pull out floor for easy cleaning. a two inch gap in the roof line to provide ventilation. The doors do not "seal".
Yesterday we woke up to a significant drop in temp from the previous night. Although the heat lamp was on, we found one dead hen, and four more in stages of what seemed like hypothermia. We brought them inside to the basement to warm them slowly. We ended up losing all of them. in the very end, they thrashed and seized. We were obviously devastated. The remaining five birds seemed ok. we covered the coop with a blanket and tucked it into the eaves. Left the heat lamp on, it was about 40 degrees outside temp with no wind, so I left the coop door open to allow them to choose to be out or in. We came home from work to two more dead. Shortly after we lost two more. I now have only the rooster, whom had to be brought in for the fear of losing him as well. Please advise! My husband thinks it may be some sort of poison. I feel that it might be to many drafts inside. I don't recollect having this many problems raising chickens growing up. I am extremely upset and do not want to bring more Chickens home until I get this figured out. Is It hypothermia? Can it happen that quickly and can it be avoided? Should I insulate? Do I need a coop that sits on the ground? All deaths occurred in a short time, and ALL birds are free of any visible signs of disease. They were of healthy weight, beautiful plumage, and of different breeds. We love our birds, we want to be good caretakers but want to do it well and succeed with the correct shelter and or feed, Should we "re-home" the rooster in the mean time, we do not want him to e lonely or fall to the same fate. any help is appreciated!! (the hens were about 10 months old and 5 months old)

One thing I noticed right away....too many birds to too small of a space. The space for your coop would hold 4 standard chickens, max...but it's best to even go a little more on that space. Your reputable coop builder is not exactly reputable if he is recommending 16 birds in 24 sq. ft. of space. You'd need an 8x8 coop to give each of those birds the recommended 4 sq. ft. of living space...and even then most experienced chicken folks will tell you to go even higher on that space and allow for 6-8 sq. ft. for each bird for healthy living conditions, especially in the winter time.

Then you have too little ventilation and provided heat... and used a heat lamp...depending upon the type of light bulb used, it could have been coated with Teflon which emits a gas that's toxic to birds when the bulb is heated, particularly in enclosed spaces.

Then you occluded the ventilation even more and did it again.

You can rest assured it's not hypothermia....chickens are out there in 20-40 below weather, sleeping in the open and not dying of hypothermia. My own birds are living in an open air style coop and have been through temps of -10 in their coop with no signs of discomfort, let alone hypothermia or dying.

Symptoms of PTFE poisoning(Teflon toxicity) http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2874

Quote:
Here's a thread you might find interesting about cold temps for chickens: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/97134/how-cold-is-too-cold-for-a-chicken

The temps you are having do not warrant any heat in your coop, nor do you need to close ventilation to keep chickens warm. They have downy feathers that are immensely suited for cold weather wear and they do very well in cold temps, even more so than in hot temps.

I'd advise you decrease your stocking rate in your coop, open up more ventilation when it's cold...not less...humidity from their breathing, then getting cold, is more harmful than just being dry and cold, so your ventilation is very, very important. Don't worry about drafts...unless there is a cold wind blowing directly onto your birds and it's parting their feathers, you don't have a sufficient draft to effect your bird's comfort and health in the winter months.

Heating a coop makes it hard on chickens as they move from a heated space, out into the cold and then back again....this is a good way to cause illness in your flock as they struggle to adjust to large variances in temps over and over. Constant temps with small variances is a more natural and healthy environment for them.

I'd get that heat lamp out of the coop and read the label on the bulb packaging to see what kind of coating your bulb has....only use bulbs that do not have a teflon coating. Then reserve your heat lamp for times when you are brooding chicks in outside brooders only, with the right bulbs, great ventilation and in cool ambient temps that would warrant more heat than a regular light bulb.

Time to do a lot of reading and studying before getting any more birds to put in that coop.

 

[Lskellenger]

Thank you so much, I will take a step back, evaluate, change the environment to suit the number of birds we wish to have with a new coop if need be, and await further response from OSU, but given what you have said and your (from what I can tell) extensive knowledge of raising chickens, it is a good foundation

 

[Lskellenger]

We have taken Kathy's advise and will be sending three chickens to OSU for analysis. It wasn't as expensive as we thought, and we need to know before we proceed in reestablishing a flock. We cannot make the same mistakes twice with precious lives. We did speak to Dr Jim Hermez, a poultry specialist at OSU, and he offered that there were five causes that would cause such devastation. Malnutrition from feed rations, no supplements (which saddens me as this was not indicated in the books I have read as essential), Avian flu, New Castles (he said was very rare), mold or infested feed, . He concurred that it was not from cold. We so appreciate everyone's thoughtful advise and input in this sad time. We will post the pathologists findings as soon as we receive them so we can solve this mystery for everyone. Please know that our dear rooster Elvis has recovered and is relaxing in the barn with a delicious meal of "people food" as we do not trust our feed at this time (Bananas, pears, apples, corn on the cob) He is being admired by admired by our resident pheasant and is doing well.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
Think about what you did when you found these birds. You removed them from the coop environment~the source of the problem, be it the heat lamp or occlusive environment and the heat lamp~and they recovered. Some did not. They were cold, lethargic and had discolored skin due to lack of oxygen.... because they were asphyxiating and in the process of dying. Think about this...not very severe cold temps, a closed in coop, many warm bodies in a too small space~ and a heat lamp. Does this seem likely to produce hypothermia in a healthy flock of birds? It's not likely. They had heat...too much, actually.

When you removed them from the air of the coop, some were able to recover a little. Then you returned them to the coop environment and closed down the oxygen even further. By that time the worst of the gases from your light would have burnt off but some could still remain...then more O2 flow was removed and birds that had already been exposed previously were exposed again, with less oxygen this time.

Inexperience is not your fault...everyone learns and sometimes that learning comes the hard way. But try to be objective about this episode and really study on all the factors. It's easy to assume hypothermia if you only factor in that it was cold outside. Factor in all the other variables and facts about the hardiness of birds in winter weather and you can maybe see a different angle of the episode.

Think harder, look a little deeper..... and try not to beat yourself up on this. Everyone makes mistakes, whether they've been doing this a week or 40 years. Books can be very limiting, particularly the most popular poultry books on the market, and they don't often explain a lot about common sense issues and mostly have the same info that all the other books have.

No one can know truly what happened in that coop because we were not there, but from what has been reported some of the details are glaringly obvious to folks in the know about chickens...but we still don't know all the facts that you know, so opinions offered by me and others are only as good as what we read from your subjective assessment of the situation.

Don't lose heart! You can do this chicken thing...it's marvelously easy if you have all the information in front of you. Don't hesitate to ask questions on this forum as there are many who can mentor you through keeping chickens if you would so wish it.

 

[Scott H]

Beekist has given you great advice....we had a hen in a full molt with sub zero temps in our coop and she is fine. She had no feathers on her neck or head at the time. Coop is open at one end at all times with no drafts on the roost. I was worried but they are pretty tough.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Lskellenger,
Thank you for posting about this very important issue. I know it was very painful for you, but you have informed a lot of people and may have saved other flocks. Five very important things came out of this discussion.
1) Whenever a bird dies, their necropsies can sometimes give you answers and aren't that expensive if done through a university vet school or state avian disease lab. Whenever numerous birds die, finding out why is essential.
2) Resist the temptation to blame the obvious. Look at the total picture and you will always find multiple possibilities.
3) Birds rarely need extra heat if they're healthy, but they do need ventilation and enough space.
4) Teflon coating is deadly to birds when heated (via light bulbs or non-stick cookware), and cedar shavings can be as well.
5) And this is new to me -- there's a heat lamp on the market that is Teflon coated! Was this truly a heat lamp, or was it just a light bulb that was used for heat (like the GE rough service 100, etc)? Was it a red heat lamp or a white one? Do you still have the packaging, or can you still read the brand and bulb type on the bulb itself? If not, can you go back to the place where you bought the bulb and get the information and post it for us? (And if you haven't already done so, please ask the manager of the store to post a big sign, and put labels on every box, that these are poisonous to birds -- mammals don't have a problem with this. Also, please contact the manufacturer and ask them to label the bulbs as being deadly to birds -- Sylvania and Phillips already do this, GE has gotten sued many times for this but still refuses to do so -- but another bulb company may not know about the dangers.) I know this may be hard for you to do, after what you've been through, but you could be saving someone else's flock by taking a stand.

I'm so sorry that you had to go through this. I hope your new girls love your rooster.
--April

 

[mpgo4th]

sounds like an illness to me. 30-40 degrees is nothing to a fully feathered chicken. Mine run around outside with temps in the teens and some of them are 12 weeks old. I think you got an ill bird that gave whatever they had to the rest of the flock. If your remaining birds die inside you'll know thats what it was. Sorry for your loss.

 

[Eggcessive]

I agree that there is some illness or toxin that is affecting your chickens. I'm not familiar with fur shavings--is that a common bedding in your area? Could it have had something in it? Maybe something with the wood of the coop or stain? Do you live close to neighbors that may have treated their property or had rat poison outside? Lead is a toxin that still exists around old barns and houses, and can kill chickens. Have you put in any knew water lines that have had sealant put into the pipes? Have you checked your feed? A BYCer recently lost many in her flock due to bad feed or feed that have sat on the shelf too long. Sometimes mold spores can invade feed before you notice it. I'm sure you will investigate this, but I would advise you not to use a heat lamp in your coop, unless you have extreme temps below zero. Chickens are very hardy, and don't need the heat if they are in a draft-free dry coop. If they get used to heat, then go outside or the power goes out, they will then have problems with cold. Sorry for all of your losses, and I hope you will try again.

 

[casportpony]

Sorry for your losses.

Oregon State University Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory
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http://vetmed.oregonstate.edu/diagnostic