Hypothermia?

[Beekissed]

We are "new" to raising chickens. We have a raised chicken coop inside a large fenced in range area. The coop was built by a reputable designer for up to 16 chickens. Roosting and laying spaces are provided, fir shavings are the current bedding. We feed good quality layer rations. We started with 14 birds, we lost two to predators during a free range day. Then we lost two to what we feel was hypothermia but this is where the questions start...The chickens are closed into their coop every night, in temps of below 30 degrees a heat lamp is provided. water is primarily outside of the coop, unless it is very cold, then water is moved into the coop. The coop is 4x6, sturdily built with a pull out floor for easy cleaning. a two inch gap in the roof line to provide ventilation. The doors do not "seal".
Yesterday we woke up to a significant drop in temp from the previous night. Although the heat lamp was on, we found one dead hen, and four more in stages of what seemed like hypothermia. We brought them inside to the basement to warm them slowly. We ended up losing all of them. in the very end, they thrashed and seized. We were obviously devastated. The remaining five birds seemed ok. we covered the coop with a blanket and tucked it into the eaves. Left the heat lamp on, it was about 40 degrees outside temp with no wind, so I left the coop door open to allow them to choose to be out or in. We came home from work to two more dead. Shortly after we lost two more. I now have only the rooster, whom had to be brought in for the fear of losing him as well. Please advise! My husband thinks it may be some sort of poison. I feel that it might be to many drafts inside. I don't recollect having this many problems raising chickens growing up. I am extremely upset and do not want to bring more Chickens home until I get this figured out. Is It hypothermia? Can it happen that quickly and can it be avoided? Should I insulate? Do I need a coop that sits on the ground? All deaths occurred in a short time, and ALL birds are free of any visible signs of disease. They were of healthy weight, beautiful plumage, and of different breeds. We love our birds, we want to be good caretakers but want to do it well and succeed with the correct shelter and or feed, Should we "re-home" the rooster in the mean time, we do not want him to e lonely or fall to the same fate. any help is appreciated!! (the hens were about 10 months old and 5 months old)

One thing I noticed right away....too many birds to too small of a space. The space for your coop would hold 4 standard chickens, max...but it's best to even go a little more on that space. Your reputable coop builder is not exactly reputable if he is recommending 16 birds in 24 sq. ft. of space. You'd need an 8x8 coop to give each of those birds the recommended 4 sq. ft. of living space...and even then most experienced chicken folks will tell you to go even higher on that space and allow for 6-8 sq. ft. for each bird for healthy living conditions, especially in the winter time.

Then you have too little ventilation and provided heat... and used a heat lamp...depending upon the type of light bulb used, it could have been coated with Teflon which emits a gas that's toxic to birds when the bulb is heated, particularly in enclosed spaces.

Then you occluded the ventilation even more and did it again.

You can rest assured it's not hypothermia....chickens are out there in 20-40 below weather, sleeping in the open and not dying of hypothermia. My own birds are living in an open air style coop and have been through temps of -10 in their coop with no signs of discomfort, let alone hypothermia or dying.

Symptoms of PTFE poisoning(Teflon toxicity) http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2874

Quote:
Here's a thread you might find interesting about cold temps for chickens: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/97134/how-cold-is-too-cold-for-a-chicken

The temps you are having do not warrant any heat in your coop, nor do you need to close ventilation to keep chickens warm. They have downy feathers that are immensely suited for cold weather wear and they do very well in cold temps, even more so than in hot temps.

I'd advise you decrease your stocking rate in your coop, open up more ventilation when it's cold...not less...humidity from their breathing, then getting cold, is more harmful than just being dry and cold, so your ventilation is very, very important. Don't worry about drafts...unless there is a cold wind blowing directly onto your birds and it's parting their feathers, you don't have a sufficient draft to effect your bird's comfort and health in the winter months.

Heating a coop makes it hard on chickens as they move from a heated space, out into the cold and then back again....this is a good way to cause illness in your flock as they struggle to adjust to large variances in temps over and over. Constant temps with small variances is a more natural and healthy environment for them.

I'd get that heat lamp out of the coop and read the label on the bulb packaging to see what kind of coating your bulb has....only use bulbs that do not have a teflon coating. Then reserve your heat lamp for times when you are brooding chicks in outside brooders only, with the right bulbs, great ventilation and in cool ambient temps that would warrant more heat than a regular light bulb.

Time to do a lot of reading and studying before getting any more birds to put in that coop.

 

[Lskellenger]

Unfortunately I am the product of doing too much reading. All of the premade coops I was looking at all had about the same space per bird ratio, as long as there was an outside area that they could roam around and spread their wings so to speak. I have two pretty decently rated books that i read that DID relate to more space per bird. The first round of losing birds was VERY typical of hypothermia in my experience, lethargy, discolored skin, cold skin to the touch etc. The fact that several of them came around after being warmed up only reinforced that theory. The books go on and on about having to have a draft free space to avoid hypothermia so again, this was my impulse to eliminate drafts and to watch the temps. Your response was definitely more pointed to issues that I need to be aware of, but I must say that I sobbed as I read because I feel that I tried very hard to do everything "right". I am a huge animal lover, and try to make sure that all of my rescue livestock and my acquired animals are all fed the best hay, grain etc, are monitored for any signs of illness, are well protected, wormed, vaccinated, licensed. So I feel I have failed my birds and need to re-evaluate my plan. I am curious as to how coops can be sold under such different guidelines, and how others are not having the same issues, I contacted several references for "The Chicken Gardner" where I got my coop and there was no indication of a similar problem so I went ahead with the purchase.
I will pass on your thoughts to OSU with your permission and see if that fits in or helps them in determining the COD.
Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate the information and the time you took. I again am amazed at this forums compassion and effort to help.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
Think about what you did when you found these birds. You removed them from the coop environment~the source of the problem, be it the heat lamp or occlusive environment and the heat lamp~and they recovered. Some did not. They were cold, lethargic and had discolored skin due to lack of oxygen.... because they were asphyxiating and in the process of dying. Think about this...not very severe cold temps, a closed in coop, many warm bodies in a too small space~ and a heat lamp. Does this seem likely to produce hypothermia in a healthy flock of birds? It's not likely. They had heat...too much, actually.

When you removed them from the air of the coop, some were able to recover a little. Then you returned them to the coop environment and closed down the oxygen even further. By that time the worst of the gases from your light would have burnt off but some could still remain...then more O2 flow was removed and birds that had already been exposed previously were exposed again, with less oxygen this time.

Inexperience is not your fault...everyone learns and sometimes that learning comes the hard way. But try to be objective about this episode and really study on all the factors. It's easy to assume hypothermia if you only factor in that it was cold outside. Factor in all the other variables and facts about the hardiness of birds in winter weather and you can maybe see a different angle of the episode.

Think harder, look a little deeper..... and try not to beat yourself up on this. Everyone makes mistakes, whether they've been doing this a week or 40 years. Books can be very limiting, particularly the most popular poultry books on the market, and they don't often explain a lot about common sense issues and mostly have the same info that all the other books have.

No one can know truly what happened in that coop because we were not there, but from what has been reported some of the details are glaringly obvious to folks in the know about chickens...but we still don't know all the facts that you know, so opinions offered by me and others are only as good as what we read from your subjective assessment of the situation.

Don't lose heart! You can do this chicken thing...it's marvelously easy if you have all the information in front of you. Don't hesitate to ask questions on this forum as there are many who can mentor you through keeping chickens if you would so wish it.

 

[Lskellenger]

Thank you so much, I will take a step back, evaluate, change the environment to suit the number of birds we wish to have with a new coop if need be, and await further response from OSU, but given what you have said and your (from what I can tell) extensive knowledge of raising chickens, it is a good foundation

 

[Scott H]

Beekist has given you great advice....we had a hen in a full molt with sub zero temps in our coop and she is fine. She had no feathers on her neck or head at the time. Coop is open at one end at all times with no drafts on the roost. I was worried but they are pretty tough.

 

[Lskellenger]

Yes, I feel much more informed, and much more confident about moving forward, I will move on from the guilt I feel, and concentrate on correcting my mistakes. Sweet birds, all named and loved individually. Hard to accept that is was my doing.

 

[Lskellenger]

For comparisons sake, this is the coop that I purchased. Hopefully the link will work. I bought the biggest one he had available, and had 14 birds at peak

http://chickengardener.com/gableroofcoops

 

[Beekissed]

Oh, my! I'm sorry you were mislead into buying that expensive coop by the information in the ad. Many have done that very thing on this forum due to the advertised "how many birds it will hold" and soon found out they had problems with feather picking, cannibalism, illness and parasite issues due to having too many birds in one small area.

I'd most certainly contact this company and express my thoughts on their misleading information...it's horrible~either they know nothing at all about chickens or they don't care and just want to sell coops. I'm sure you can't send the coop back and get your money back after it's been used, either. I'm sorry!

 

[Scott H]

I would cut ventilation in the peak away from the roost and never close it...cover it with hardware cloth....I also would not put more than 6 birds in that coop....telling you that coop will hold 15 hens it's crazy talk, IMHO. Wish you well with your new girls...your rooster needs some company! :-D

 

[Beekissed]

We always call those dollhouse coops Boxes O' Death due to their lack of space on floor and roost, and lack of ventilation. It's really hard to open up ventilation on a space so small, as no matter where you put it, it's going to blow directly on a bird, be they on the floor or on the roost.

I agree with Scott on opening up some good ventilation at the peak of that gable on both ends of the coop and also crack the pop door open at the bottom a good 2-3 in. to allow good air in, bad air out the top. Seeing as how it's winter and the space for the run is so minimal also, I'd still not have 6 birds there, personally...4 would be my upper limit, no matter what season it was. Animals need space for healthy living...anything less is like a caged tiger at the zoo, just animals pacing back and forth like a prisoner in a cell.