I just need to vent about my dogs

[Sonya9]

Not as dramatic, but we've also had an issue introducing our new pup to our older dog. Our older dog is already neutered, he's a lab mix, so not an aggressive breed, he's just always been a very assertive dog. He got the new pup on her ear and tore a nice chunk out of it......

We spent the next few months playing the doggie shuffle--one dog in, one dog out. Roscoe just had to be in the outdoor kennel more, or in my bedroom. It was pretty stressful, and that was with just one pup to watch out for!

If you go through another puppy introduction in the future discover x-pens! They are perfect for separating puppies from adult dogs and everyone can share the same "family time" in the same room. Less confining than a crate the dogs are together but safely separated (not a good idea for large dogs that want to kill each other, but for separating puppies they are ideal).

I live in a VERY small house and had an unexpected litter a while ago (pregnant little stray showed up desperate and then had 5 pups two days later). I had no space and male house dogs that wanted NOTHING to do with obnoxious puppies so we set up an x-pen for mom and the pups in the main living area. Puppies were birthed and raised in their little pen, adult dogs carried on in the house as usual. Everyone could enjoy the same family time, bones, socialization etc.... They were "separate but equal". No one was isolated most especially the older adult dogs. When the pups were old enough to spend time outside I fenced a small little yard pen for daytime use, they stayed in their little area and the adults had the rest of the yard as usual.

I think the pups were about 5 months old before I started letting them have some supervised time with the adult males, the pups were old enough to have some manners and use common sense.

Here is an example:



To the op:
I am glad you got the two pups to the vet and did the right thing. I nearly suggested if you can't take them to the vet then man up and take them in the back woods (individually) with a .45 to stop their suffering. Don't blame your adult males, chances are they will love the female pups once the girls hit puberty. If you decide to keep a male pup that could be risky and you might want to neuter the pup very young.

 

[donrae]

If you go through another puppy introduction in the future discover x-pens! They are perfect for separating puppies from adult dogs and everyone can share the same "family time" in the same room. Less confining than a crate the dogs are together but safely separated (not a good idea for large dogs that want to kill each other, but for separating puppies they are ideal).

I live in a VERY small house and had an unexpected litter a while ago (pregnant little stray showed up desperate and then had 5 pups two days later). I had no space and male house dogs that wanted NOTHING to do with obnoxious puppies so we set up an x-pen for mom and the pups in the main living area. Puppies were birthed and raised in their little pen, adult dogs carried on in the house as usual. Everyone could enjoy the same family time, bones, socialization etc.... They were "separate but equal". No one was isolated most especially the older adult dogs. When the pups were old enough to spend time outside I fenced a small little yard pen for daytime use, they stayed in their little area and the adults had the rest of the yard as usual.

I think the pups were about 5 months old before I started letting them have some supervised time with the adult males, the pups were old enough to have some manners and use common sense.

Here is an example:



To the op:
I am glad you got the two pups to the vet and did the right thing. I nearly suggested if you can't take them to the vet then man up and take them in the back woods (individually) with a .45 to stop their suffering. Don't blame your adult males, chances are they will love the female pups once the girls hit puberty. If you decide to keep a male pup that could be risky and you might want to neuter the pup very young.

It's a great idea, but not workable here. I don't know how small your "very small" house is, but we're 4 adult sized people and 1 70/80lb dog in less than a thousand square feet, that was before the Great Dane puppy! No where for a pen like this. We just used doors--outside, in the bedroom, etc. They're good now--thankfully!

 

[Sonya9]

It's a great idea, but not workable here. I don't know how small your "very small" house is, but we're 4 adult sized people and 1 70/80lb dog in less than a thousand square feet, that was before the Great Dane puppy! No where for a pen like this. We just used doors--outside, in the bedroom, etc. They're good now--thankfully!

My house is 650 sq feet (pretty small, one living area and a bedroom basically). The pic I posted is NOT my house, just a pic I found online showing an x-pen and puppies.

When the little surprise puppies were born I had 2 adult dogs and a brand new year old 100 lb male livestock guardian dog, no other humans but the new LGD decided he HATED the other male dogs (4 years later he still hates them and yes, I use doors to separate as an x-pen won't do it). They are all house dogs.

The puppies were in a smaller space than in that picture. Their pen was probably 4 x 4. We all survived, the older dogs weren't stressed and the puppies were safe (I stressed a LOT during that time though). There was very little space for any of us but we made do.

The x-pen is an idea if you ever face that situation again, better than crates or isolation, and it doesn't have to take up much space.

 

[newfoundland]

I think the pen is a great idea. I think you will agree that it is down to 100% vigilance in these situations and that is not easily achieved as we all have so many distractions in our lives. Muzzles are another answer which i think are more commonly used here, and there are very soft ones available that once used to it dogs seem to completely forget about it.

 

[BurchFunnyFarm]

do you hunt hogs?

Yes we hunt all four of the adult dogs. They live off chains and each have their own beds in our room. I think we are the only people I know of that don't chain or confine our hunting dogs, but after all of this I think we need to start. At least do it for all of the time that we won't be immediately supervising them.

 

[Sonya9]

Yes we hunt all four of the adult dogs. They live off chains and each have their own beds in our room. I think we are the only people I know of that don't chain or confine our hunting dogs, but after all of this I think we need to start. At least do it for all of the time that we won't be immediately supervising them.

There is a HUGE difference between "chaining" and confining. Chaining is illegal in many municipalities because it is abusive and cruel.

There is no reason your dogs can't continue to sleep in your bedroom, just use crates and use FENCING.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

I find that chaining/tethering dogs is illegal in (largely urban) areas largely due to issues like animal rights...and I don't mean animal welfare or well-being...rather than actual cruelty. It is very common in rural areas to chain or zip-tie dogs outside for some or all of the time. One of my neighbors has a set up with their three dogs on zip lines. Each has a dog house, each can play with the other, and each both protects and keeps from being a threat to the free-range chickens/ducks/sheep. The dogs are well fed, have a job, have a large stretch to run, are played with and interacted with often, and are the only dogs on that street who don't exhibit nervous fence racing behaviors/barking/charging, etc behaviors every time someone walks past. The dogs that do display these frustrated behaviors happen to be kept largely indoors. Working security at gated communities gave me a look at people who keep their dogs confined in small kennels styled to look like furniture for extended periods of time. Sometimes more than eight hours. There are many different ways to raise and keep animals, cons and pros to both, and ways to follow those methods in a beneficial or negative manner.


On the dogs in question, I can't offer any advice for your situation, but will try to find a link to a really helpful dog behavior forum that might be of use.

 

[Granny Hatchet]

op says they live off chain anyway. that means they are not chained.

 

[dainerra]

as others have said, there is nothing unusual about what your dogs did. In fact, it is pretty normal adult male behavior.
It also doesn't equate to aggressiveness towards people or even to other dogs.

Chaining can actually lead to increased aggression so I wouldn't start doing it now. I agree that confining the dogs while they are outside unsupervised is important but if possible I would find another method.

 

[Alice28]

I have to say this. I read all this, I have had dogs my whole life. I also have a four year old and a home daycare. A dog who will attack a puppy WILL attack a child. A crawling baby especially. If you think puppy's annoy a dog, a baby is up in the dogs buisness like no other. We are very lucky to have the best dog ever. She loves our car, son and when the daycare kids get all over her she doesn't even car, she loves it! I make them back off for her safety. She's getting older. I have been around dogs who nip at puppies, and while it might be normal, these are always the dogs I hear about having to be re homed because of aggression when babies are brought into the picture. So if you have small children around I would make sure these dogs aren't around. I agree that putting a dog on a chain is very wrong and makes the problems worse and would never do that, but I would never have these dogs around small children.