Is it possible for a cockerel to look like a pullet in an auto-sexing breed?

[enola]

You may be able to find him a home with someone breeding Olive eggers or Easter eggers. Please don't rehome him with some one breeding Legbars. If I was closer I would offer him a home for my blue egg layer project.

 

[Gifa]

Unfortunately, living in Kansas City, I don't know many others who can take a rooster... According to our ordinance, he'll be illegal to have after he's 16 weeks... he'll also be too small to really make a meal out of at 16 weeks... So... my husband is already complaining about the price of this chicken nugget.

If I could, I'd have a whole mess of hens... but the city ordinance says no more than 15 layers... And to be honest, it's just me and my husband, so... I don't really need 15... But I built my coop for 10 hens, to accommodate a reasonable flock renewal plan. My current flock (Originally 7, now down to 5 birds) is 3 years old... still laying like first year hens, and do a good job keeping us in eggs, except in the winter. My current brood of chicks (5 chicks) was meant to pick up their slack without overloading the coop and be established by the time we're ready to start culling the older hens... So, when we are ready for another brood will depend on a lot of factors... space being the biggest factor... because if the legbar is our only roo, then my flock is at 9... And so, I don't have room to brood up anymore, as it's generally recommended to brood up more than 1.


If Meyer is cool about it and honors their sexing guarantee policy, giving us a refund for this accidental roo, we'll likely order two Legbars, an Olive egger, a Maran and maybe another Orpington when we're ready to move forward with our renewal plan... either next year or the year after. But if it's not made right... we'll definitely look into other hatcheries. Our older birds are from Estes... which are what you can get at Orscheln... so.

 

[Gifa]

So, yeah... without a doubt... this is a rooster...







I called up Meyer... and they have explained to me that what they do is multiply the number of birds you order, by 10... which in my case is 5 x 10 = 50... and then count the rooster... so... even though 20% of my order was incorrectly sexed... by their math... only 2% of my order was incorrectly sexed, meaning they're off the hook... and the way I look at it... that's some funny math that will never work out in favor of the customer...

Example... Lets say I order 10 birds... and 6 turn up rooster (that's 60% of the order by everyone else's math)...

The hatchery should say... well gosh, we're really sorry about that... we will gladly refund you for 5 of those roosters, because by our 90% sexing accuracy policy 5 of them should not have been a rooster...

But what I was just told was... 10 x 10 = 100... 5 roosters = 95% accurate... meaning we're within the policy to deny reimbursement.

I made the point again, that if this had happened with the Australorp, I would not have batted an eye or even made the phone call... but this happened on what was supposed to be an auto-sexing breed... and at $35 a pullet... it was effectively 30% of my entire order including the shipping fee. Which... is a big deal.

She put me on hold... and came back with...
"Sometimes females look masculine, so we can revisit this in 4 weeks when the chick is 10 weeks old. And because it's a high dollar bird, we "might" be able to make an exception."

I restated that I felt that the auto-sexing trait should also be taken into account here too... because one of the reasons I paid the $35 for a single pullet, was because in theory, I'm guaranteed not to get a rooster... and for someone like me, who lives inside of a big city... that's an important consideration. I am just not connected to enough people who are able to take my Cream Legbar Roo off of my hands, because no one I know in the city is allowed to have a rooster.

But I was told to call back in 4 weeks... Which, I am fine with.

I do know for sure now... I will never be able to order from Meyer again if this isn't made right. I don't think their policy on sexing is fair, and, my husband will not allow us to be taken advantage of that way again. He really is a one strike and your out kind of guy, and he's likely to contact better business bureau's about the funny math regarding the policy, and the credit card company about the $35.

I don't want it to come to that. I just want to be the happy chicken lady on my block.

 

[chicken pickin]

Is the chicken posted above the "Cream Legbar"? 6weeks is it?

The chick definitely looks to be male with that huge red comb and wattles. Second, and I dont mean to sound awful here so I apologize, but that is a horrible representation of a Cream Legbar, looks nothing like one, only thing that makes me say maybe a CL or a CL mix is the fact that he has a crest.

Male CLs are supposed to be gray and white(technically cream) barred, even the crest and breast should be gray and cream barred. The bird above looks nothing like a Cream Legbar. Maybe that is why your male wasn't able to be sexed properly at hatch. Poor breeding choices will eventually lose the auto sex trait, though Im not sure why your chick is so dark...

A Cream Legbar cockerel that age should look similar to these cockerels posted below

 

[Gifa]

Yeah, well, it's a hatchery grade cream legbar... what can you say? I typically don't expect show quality chickens out of hatcheries... and I was not so much concerned about breed representation as much as I was about getting that blue egg out of the pullet I ordered... so... I'm not stressing about the appearance to standard... I am stressing out about feeling like I might get jerked around on their sexing guarantee policy because they are playing funny with the math.

To me... the whole 90% policy should be kind of moot on auto-sexing breeds and they should just accept that they've made a mistake and/or screwed up their stock on a breed that auto-sexes... if the hatchery is doing it's job on breeds like this, mistakes like this should be so few and far between enough that they can afford to reimburse folks without making them feel like they are putting them out. It's not fair to punish the customers for what is obviously their mistake. I mean... I am looking past the exorbitant price, thinking when I'm buying this chick, because I trust that I'll at least get what I'm ordering. If I can't even trust them to manage auto-sexing breeds correctly, or to just own the mistake and refund me... I might as well stick to buying Easter Eggers from Estes at the local Orscheln. It's a fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me thing.

I even told them... you know... if the australorp had been sexed incorrectly, I wouldn't have even worried about it... because... it's 3 frikken dollars... I'm not going to twist my underwear in a variety of sailor's knots over 2-3 dollars... 35 dollars of a 109 dollar order... that's different. I will feel cheated over that. And... I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

[chicken pickin]

Yeah, well, it's a hatchery grade cream legbar... what can you say? I typically don't expect show quality chickens out of hatcheries... and I was not so much concerned about breed representation as much as I was about getting that blue egg out of the pullet I ordered... so... I'm not stressing about the appearance to standard... I am stressing out about feeling like I might get jerked around on their sexing guarantee policy because they are playing funny with the math.

To me... the whole 90% policy should be kind of moot on auto-sexing breeds and they should just accept that they've made a mistake and/or screwed up their stock on a breed that auto-sexes... if the hatchery is doing it's job on breeds like this, mistakes like this should be so few and far between enough that they can afford to reimburse folks without making them feel like they are putting them out. It's not fair to punish the customers for what is obviously their mistake. I mean... I am looking past the exorbitant price, thinking when I'm buying this chick, because I trust that I'll at least get what I'm ordering. If I can't even trust them to manage auto-sexing breeds correctly, or to just own the mistake and refund me... I might as well stick to buying Easter Eggers from Estes at the local Orscheln. It's a fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me thing.

I even told them... you know... if the australorp had been sexed incorrectly, I wouldn't have even worried about it... because... it's 3 frikken dollars... I'm not going to twist my underwear in a variety of sailor's knots over 2-3 dollars... 35 dollars of a 109 dollar order... that's different. I will feel cheated over that. And... I don't think that's unreasonable.

I completely understand. But this is exactly my point, BREED REPRESENTATION IS VERY IMPORTANT WITH AUTO SEXING BREEDS. It has nothing to do with breeder quality or hatchery quality because they dont need to be perfect by any means, but they do need to maintain certain features to keep the auto sexing traits from generation to generation. I completely understand hatchery grade chickens and of course they wont be as great of a representation for a breed as say from a breeder, but they will be similar. Your chick isnt even a slight resemblance. Because Cream Legbars are an auto sexing chicken breed they do still need to be selected properly as to maintain the auto sexing traits, if chicks are not sexable at hatch as male or female, they should be removed from being future breeders, even at the hatchery. You cant just breed any Cream Legbar to any Cream Legbar and think you will maintain an auto sexing breed, its not that simple

If he is in fact a pure Cream Legbar, I guarantee the hatchery at some point made poor selections and with a male that looks like your bird there is no way they will know male from female 100% of the time. Your male is lacking the proper barring a Cream Legbar male has. Male CL should have 2 barring genes and that is what gives the male chicks the nice large head spot as chicks. It is possible the hatchery isn't doing well with this breed and is loosing the auto sexing traits in their stock.

I understand you were looking for a pullet and blue eggs and you should have received a pullet plain and simple. The hatchery failed and did not deliver and they should make it right for you 100%, especially for a breed that should be auto sexing and is a little more costly.

My personal thought is this breed might not do well in hatcheries and eventually they likely wont be offered.

 

[Gifa]

I completely understand. But this is exactly my point, BREED REPRESENTATION IS VERY IMPORTANT WITH AUTO SEXING BREEDS. It has nothing to do with breeder quality or hatchery quality because they dont need to be perfect by any means, but they do need to maintain certain features to keep the auto sexing traits from generation to generation. I completely understand hatchery grade chickens and of course they wont be as great of a representation for a breed as say from a breeder, but they will be similar. Your chick isnt even a slight resemblance. Because Cream Legbars are an auto sexing chicken breed they do still need to be selected properly as to maintain the auto sexing traits, if chicks are not sexable at hatch as male or female, they should be removed from being future breeders, even at the hatchery. You cant just breed any Cream Legbar to any Cream Legbar and think you will maintain an auto sexing breed, its not that simple

If he is in fact a pure Cream Legbar, I guarantee the hatchery at some point made poor selections and with a male that looks like your bird there is no way they will know male from female 100% of the time. Your male is lacking the proper barring a Cream Legbar male has. Male CL should have 2 barring genes and that is what gives the male chicks the nice large head spot as chicks. It is possible the hatchery isn't doing well with this breed and is loosing the auto sexing traits in their stock.

I understand you were looking for a pullet and blue eggs and you should have received a pullet plain and simple. The hatchery failed and did not deliver and they should make it right for you 100%, especially for a breed that should be auto sexing and is a little more costly.

My personal thought is this breed might not do well in hatcheries and eventually they likely wont be offered.

I get that... I was saying... I wasn't really worried about the adult appearance in regard to the breed standard.

Breeding to maintain the auto sexing trait is totally the hatchery's job... chickens look totally different at 3 days than they look at 365 days... so I think it's ok to breed a chicken that just doesn't have the same shine as stock from smaller breeders as long as it carries everything else the breed is known for... and as a customer, I was trusting that they would do this job, as in the description of this breed on their site/catelogue... this auto sexing trait was listed as a feature of the breed...

Am I upset that this bird will grow up to look like a poor representation of the breed? No. Poor dude only has 10 more weeks to live before I have to dispatch him... Am I upset that this bird will grow up and not lay eggs? Yeah... because I was sold a chick that did not match their description... for a lot of money... If they want to continue offering this line of birds... but do not do something to correct their stock... they need to not call them Cream Legbars... stop promote their chicks as auto-sexing... and they need to lower the price considerably. Otherwise... they need to eat their mistakes.

 

[enola]

I agree with you 100% that you should get a refund since this $35 chick turned out to be a cockerel. And I agree their method of dodging a refund sucks too.

My main concern with this entire fiasco is that there are some horrible breeding practices being used by the "breeder" supplying the eggs to the hatchery, and no one is going to do anything to change their practices.

Another concern I have lies with the breed itself. Cream Legbars are advertised as being blue egg layers. The truth is a large percentage of them lay eggs that are at best "bluish" in color. And I have one that lays a green egg.

I suspect that even if your cockerel had been a pullet, she may not have laid a " blue " egg.

I really feel for you in this predicament.

 

[chicken pickin]

I agree with you 100% that you should get a refund since this $35 chick turned out to be a cockerel. And I agree their method of dodging a refund sucks too.

My main concern with this entire fiasco is that there are some horrible breeding practices being used by the "breeder" supplying the eggs to the hatchery, and no one is going to do anything to change their practices.

Another concern I have lies with the breed itself. Cream Legbars are advertised as being blue egg layers. The truth is a large percentage of them lay eggs that are at best "bluish" in color. And I have one that lays a green egg.

I suspect that even if your cockerel had been a pullet, she may not have laid a " blue " egg.

I really feel for you in this predicament.

It is true, a lot of people advertise Cream Legbar as blue egg layers. The truth is like said above is they can lay eggs that range from blue - blueish green - green. Those are acceptable colors and the standards for the UK and the US have that listed. It is the fact that many people are mistaken and incorrectly advertise the breed. The standard accepts the color range and I just looked up Meyers and they advertised the egg color appropriately.

Ideal egg color is blue and that is what many breeders work towards, but green is acceptable.


@Gifa if you are still interested in a Cream Legbar pullet you should check out the Cream Legbar Club website at www.creamlegbarclub.com there is a membership directory of Cream Legbar breeders, there is a member listed in your area.

 

[Gifa]

@Gifa if you are still interested in a Cream Legbar pullet you should check out the Cream Legbar Club website at www.creamlegbarclub.com there is a membership directory of Cream Legbar breeders, there is a member listed in your area.

I may just do that... But not this year... My coop is built to house up to 10... I have 5 now, and got 5 chicks, assuming I might get a roo out of the australorp, blue andalusian or lavender orpington... So far so good on them... I did in fact end up with a roo... I just wasn't expecting it to be the cream legbar... So, if no one else develops saddle feathers here in the next couple of weeks, I'll have 9 in the coop this winter... and... that's a full coop. I will have a variety of brown and white eggs in my carton... so, when I start retiring my older ladies, I'll be ready for mostly blue, green and olive egg laying birds.