Lavendar Orpington Rooster over Blue/Black/Splash Hens - What will I get?

[coldupnorth]

I have a nice Lavendar Orpington Rooster that reigns over my Orpington pen, since there are also blue, black and splash Orpingtons in with him what colors would I hatch out? I have two lavender hens in there also, but I am assuming I should get Lavendar from them. I'm not very well versed in genetics. We are trying to hatch some out for my DD 4H and want to know if there is a possibility that we could get blue or black out of this combination since those colors are APA recognized. Thank you!

 

[BGMatt]

I have a nice Lavendar Orpington Rooster that reigns over my Orpington pen, since there are also blue, black and splash Orpingtons in with him what colors would I hatch out? I have two lavender hens in there also, but I am assuming I should get Lavendar from them. I'm not very well versed in genetics. We are trying to hatch some out for my DD 4H and want to know if there is a possibility that we could get blue or black out of this combination since those colors are APA recognized. Thank you!

A mess down the line.

Lavender is a simple recessive, so they have to have two copies of the gene to express. So in breeding to Black, Blue or Splash it would function exactly as Black, except all the offspring will carry one copy of the Lavender gene or "split to Lavender". When bred back to Lavender any of those birds would produce 50% Lavender and 50% Whatever (split to lavender). Or when bred together they will produce 25% Lavender, 50% Whatever (split to Lavender) and 25% whatever. Simple enough until you factor in the Blue gene. So let's say you take a Splash from that first year pairing and breed it back to Lavender, you'll get 50% Lavender and 50% Blue (split to lavender), if you breed a Black Offspring from the first year back to the lavender you'll get 50% Black (split to lavender) and 50% Lavender. A Blue would give you 50% Lavender 25% Black 25% Blue (blacks and blues are both split for lavender).

Still simple, but multiple generations down the line you won't know without meticulous records what carries Lavender and what doesn't. Since split birds don't look any different then non-split.

Make sense?

Edit: It will also create havoc with your lacing in your blues.

Edit 2: For instance, look at this Chicken Calculator result from breeding an F1 Blue to the original Lavender, then taking a cockerel from there back to a F1 hen. http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html?mgt=E:E/E,Lav:lav/lav&fgt=E:E/E,Bl:Bl/bl+,S:S/(S),Pg:Pg/Pg

Edit 3: Or not, since that link doesn't work. But it gave a ton of different possibilities, Blues (with and without lacing) and Splashes and Blacks all both split or not split, Lavender both carrying and not carrying the pattern gene

 

[coldupnorth]

It does make sense. So if I hatch these eggs, any chicks that hatch out lavender will be from my lavender hens since my BBS hens do not carry the lavender gene. Those chicks could be still used in breeding my lavenders. Any others that are blue or black could be shown at our county fair for 4H even if they are split to Lavender, however they would just become layers and not breeders. I don't really want to create a mess in our BBS Orps. We had two beautiful black and blue cocks and more beautiful hens, but sadly a Fisher got into our pen and killed most of them. I am hoping to get some good quality BBS eggs to hatch later this Spring when it is warmer. Until then, I have to just use our own eggs to produce some birds that my daughter can use for 4H. They can't be any worse than the chickens from the hatcheries that most 4hers have to get their chickens from up here. We haven't seen above freezing in more than a month and rarely even into the teens. Below 0* temps are not very conducive to a good hatch.

Thank you for your easy to understand explanation.

 

[BGMatt]

It does make sense. So if I hatch these eggs, any chicks that hatch out lavender will be from my lavender hens since my BBS hens do not carry the lavender gene. Those chicks could be still used in breeding my lavenders. Any others that are blue or black could be shown at our county fair for 4H even if they are split to Lavender, however they would just become layers and not breeders. I don't really want to create a mess in our BBS Orps. We had two beautiful black and blue cocks and more beautiful hens, but sadly a Fisher got into our pen and killed most of them. I am hoping to get some good quality BBS eggs to hatch later this Spring when it is warmer. Until then, I have to just use our own eggs to produce some birds that my daughter can use for 4H. They can't be any worse than the chickens from the hatcheries that most 4hers have to get their chickens from up here. We haven't seen above freezing in more than a month and rarely even into the teens. Below 0* temps are not very conducive to a good hatch.

Thank you for your easy to understand explanation.

First generation you wouldn't get any Lavender unless you bred Lavender to Lavender. Often times since the Lavender gene can often for some reason give you narrow stringy feathers breeders will breed back to black and then cross back to Lavender to improve feather quality. And all the offspring would definitely be show able, I would just not introduce the Lavender gene to Blue as it creates a record keeping nightmare.

 

[coldupnorth]

Interesting idea about breeding to black and then back to lavender. I can see that the Lavenders could need some help in the feather department down the line. Mine definitely do not have the same feather width as their pen mates. Can a black have a recessive blue gene that could cause problems? My blacks came from someone who had their BBS all together.

 

[BGMatt]

Interesting idea about breeding to black and then back to lavender. I can see that the Lavenders could need some help in the feather department down the line. Mine definitely do not have the same feather width as their pen mates. Can a black have a recessive blue gene that could cause problems? My blacks came from someone who had their BBS all together.

No, Blue is not recessive. It is, I believe the correct term is incompletely dominant, it expresses if they have one copy (as Blue) AND if they have 2 copies (Splash), if a bird is out of Blue breeding and appears Black, it is genetically Black, can't be hiding any Blue.

 

[coldupnorth]

My black hens will stay with my Lavenders for the time being, but I will move my blues and splashes out of that pen later this Spring. I've learned a lot and appreciate that you shared this knowledge with me. It makes me more intrigued about genetics and more apt to look into it more. Thank you again.

 

[BGMatt]

My black hens will stay with my Lavenders for the time being, but I will move my blues and splashes out of that pen later this Spring. I've learned a lot and appreciate that you shared this knowledge with me. It makes me more intrigued about genetics and more apt to look into it more. Thank you again.

I would just mark the offspring carefully since they will be Black, you wouldn't want a Black that was split to lavender to enter breeding with anything but a Lavender.

 

[coldupnorth]

Yes, I will have to do that. I'll also have to get a nice "blue" boy to go with my blues and splashes. Can't wait till it warms up!

 

[BGMatt]

Yes, I will have to do that. I'll also have to get a nice "blue" boy to go with my blues and splashes. Can't wait till it warms up!

I probably wouldn't go Splash to Blue. It can really destroy your lacing fast I have found. Blue to Blue, Splash to Black generally give best color, I can't imagine orpingtons being any different.