Mareks experience needed. prelim results pg 9

[seminolewind]

I may have made a connection . I had a hen who was 3 years old. 2 months ago, I found her laying on the ground with what I thought was a broken leg. I splinted her leg and put her in a sling in a cage. She was on my patio but it got too hot. I moved her into the chick pen

so the chicks could keep her company. She was not eating, after 2 weeks I euthanized her. A week later, a chick "broke" her leg. I splinted it. 2 days later another chick had a "broken leg. Those chicks did not have broken legs, and might be that the hen didn't either.

So if wasting away and dying (while acting perfectly normal) can be a symptom of one type of Marek's, then I can say that I've 4 paralyzed/staggering and have a gasp, and 5 that wasted away and die, and 1 had paralysis, staggering, falling over, and the gasp, but recovered, Then I've had 9 die in 2 years of Marek's. Can Marek's attack one chicken at a time, 10 in 2 years?

 

[klf73]

mine started out with "leg injuries", my first polish I thought got stepped on, same with the second, but his legs went to the splay after a few days in his chair. I thought my treatment was making it worse.
Yesterday was a busy day and the 2 I thought weren't going to make it survived another day. I need to call the lab today to see the best way to cull one of them to not affect the tests

 

[seminolewind]

I wish it would have been leg injuries or a broken leg.

 

[AlaskGirl]

So this all sounds familiar to me. I have a blended flock. Last year I had a severe dog attack and lost almost all of my layers; a neighbor gave me some of her birds and one was ill. The roo was shaky and weak and it took him a long time to expire. He did and now I've had one hen die each month. They all isolate themselves and look weak and tired. There are no other symptoms. They are usually weak and pale for two or three days and usually die the third or fourth day. There are no leg problems and there's a clean vent area.

I am not the type who can handle any type of poking around so I get rid of them as quickly as possible without a thorough inspection. Am I right in believing there is little else to do other than isolate any ill birds? It's never more than one at a time.

Many thanks and I'm sorry to read all these posts! I hope their health improves!

 

[cgmccary]

I have not read all the posts here but NOT Marek's if birds are only 9-10 weeks of age (too young). Marek's would manifest itself, earliest, at point of lay, thereabouts. Plus Marek's would NOT be taking down so many so fast. This would only be the time they would pick up Marek's. Many other things can cause paralysis == seems like it is one of the other things. again, haven't read all the posts if you have figured it out yet , then all's good. I've had birds autopsied where I was sure Marek's and the labs said "NO." The only way to confirm Marek's is by lab -- these birds are too young.

 

[klf73]

Quote:
I quoted this off of one of the Ag websites....

"2.1 Population at risk

Marek’s disease may occur in chickens from 3 weeks of age but is most common in birds between 12 and 24 weeks of age."

eta- I also have one going to the lab tomorrow....

 

[cgmccary]

I quoted this off of one of the Ag websites....

"2.1 Population at risk

Marek’s disease may occur in chickens from 3 weeks of age but is most common in birds between 12 and 24 weeks of age."

eta- I also have one going to the lab tomorrow....

yes, the Ag website may say that but people who have confirmed Marek's will say it is going to strike a bird here, there and one in the future & leave all the others alone. Marek's doesn't strike and several chicks are suddenly all afflicted -- not the nature of that disease in any of it forms (not its profile -- least likely Marek's). Those who have verified Marek's will tell you that they will have a bird go down, and it is always older, usually point of lay but can strike anytime, two years, three years down the road -- never know which bird it is going to take. I have never heard it taking down more than 1 bird of such such young age -- their just too young to mass inflict all or most of your chicks.

Also, I have NEVER been correct diagnosing my own when I have gotten the lab results on any bird so I would not speculate -- it is our nature to suspect the worst -- I do it too. Your topic heading attracted me to post. One time, I went to the lab and said, "this is classic Marek's . . . it must be." I had much dread. Nope, it was not.

You're doing the right thing by lab testing. Don't be surprised though if it comes back "undetermined causes" or some such BUT it will rule out some things like Marek's (specifically tested for). One time, they said it must be one of these plants it must have eaten (I looked up the plants & could not find them on my property or in the run anywhere????. I never believe someone who says they have Marek's but they didn't test. Iy is pure speculation without a confirmed test.​

 

[seminolewind]

A few weeks ago I had purchased a reference book "Diseases of Poultry", 11th edition, by Y.M. Saif, chief editor. This is like the bible of chicken illness. I don't think there is more thorough and scientific reference than this. This is where my info is coming from.

Marek's virus causes lesions, tumors, or cancer in a chicken. The symptoms depend on what part of the chicken is getting the growths, for example , paralysis is caused by the virus effecting the sciatica nerve. How fast the bird shows symptoms vary due to what parts of the chicken they are attacking.

Marek's can cause lesions/tumors on skin, nerves, organs, blood vessels, anywhere, the cancer can also be found in the blood. And there are different strengths (virulence) of the virus, and different strains. You also have to take the bird's immune status, and stress as well.

It can show symptoms from none to major paralysis and death. (I have some with paralysis and a gasp, and some in the past with just wasting away, otherwise acting normal.)

The lymphodegenerative and central nervous system strain can cause symptoms or death as early as 9-20 days after exposure. Virus can start shedding at 2 weeks.
Newly hatched chicks can catch the virus at a day old, the time until symptoms or death appears is due to the viral strain and strength , genetic resistance, and the bird's immune status.

Older chickens can carry it for years before getting sick.

There are alot of pages here, and specific information given for each of the 4 major syndromes (nerves, skin, eye, and organs). Also lymph, blood vessels, and more.

I'm sure I'm like everyone else here, I want to know why they're dying. I haven't had a professional necropsy done, and I'm trying to put the pieces together.

I've heard it can be spread by wild birds, but I really can't find any specific info about it from a reliable source.

 

[klf73]

Quote:
yes, the Ag website may say that but people who have confirmed Marek's will say it is going to strike a bird here, there and one in the future & leave all the others alone. Marek's doesn't strike and several chicks are suddenly all afflicted -- not the nature of that disease in any of it forms (not its profile -- least likely Marek's). Those who have verified Marek's will tell you that they will have a bird go down, and it is always older, usually point of lay but can strike anytime, two years, three years down the road -- never know which bird it is going to take. I have never heard it taking down more than 1 bird of such such young age -- their just too young to mass inflict all or most of your chicks.

Also, I have NEVER been correct diagnosing my own when I have gotten the lab results on any bird so I would not speculate -- it is our nature to suspect the worst -- I do it too. Your topic heading attracted me to post. One time, I went to the lab and said, "this is classic Marek's . . . it must be." I had much dread. Nope, it was not.

You're doing the right thing by lab testing. Don't be surprised though if it comes back "undetermined causes" or some such BUT it will rule out some things like Marek's (specifically tested for). One time, they said it must be one of these plants it must have eaten (I looked up the plants & could not find them on my property or in the run anywhere????. I never believe someone who says they have Marek's but they didn't test. Iy is pure speculation without a confirmed test.

all affected birds have come from the same source, except for 2 that were in a brooder next to it for a few days. Affected flock has not been exposed to anything, no other birds(except previously stated, but that was after symptoms of original flock), no plants and until recently, no ground(they are still isolated in an area where no birds go). They definitely came with it as few day old chicks. It was also disclosed they had mareks on premise at a previous time which is why they vaccinate. Too many cooincidences for my liking...

 

[seminolewind]

Krista, they can catch Marek's at a day old, it will take at least 9 days (?) for the symptoms to show up. If they were exposed prior to vaccine or within 2 weeks after, they can have it.

If my hen with the broken leg did not have a broken leg, then she had paralysis of one leg. In thinking she had a broken leg, I put her in with the chicks. Approx. 10 days after the first contact, a chick showed signs. 2 days later another chick showed signs. No more coincidence. The chicks were 8 weeks old at the time. In the meantime one took a month to waste away even with multiple attempts at food and goodies separately. She was found to have some questionable follicular changes on necropsy.

I had another one spew lime green stool last night, --wasting away.

So out of 10 chicks, I have 5 without signs so far. Out of the other 5, 2 were culled with worsening paralysis, 1 wasted away and died (treated for coccidiosis), one had paralysis and gasping, but is totally healthy now, and one more is wasting away. All were treated for cocci, and placed on medicated feed.

I don't think that the vaccine covers all the different strains. I think that it mostly covers the strains that produce tumors.

The first one of mine to show signs of Marek's (paralysis, cloudy eye, loss of neck control, wasting, but a happy face the whole time), was 2 years ago. I had added a pullet a few months before that. If she was vaccinated, she still could have been a carrier and passed the disease on. Also at the same time, crows had been going into their little coop and stealing eggs and drinking their water.

Prior to the hen who I had thought had a broken leg, there were 4 deaths, several months apart, that died of wasting away. Each single chicken was from a different hatch where no one else had symptoms or died.

Krista, I don't think that what's happening to you is outside the realm of the many faces of Marek's.

And now AlaskGirl is going with the same thing, also sounding like a good possibility.

I've had 5 adults show symptoms all several months apart. I've had a batch of chicks now showing symptoms , 5 of them, each a few days apart.