Multiple Comb Type Breeds

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Thank you for starting this thread! I have also been thinking about changing up combs so that I can have a rainbow egg laying flock without any single combs to get frostbite in the winter. I have 2 rose comb breeds (Dominique, Hamburg) and a V-comb (Spitzhauben) to work with.

Literature on single, rose and pea combs, and how they interact, are pretty easy to find. But I have found very little information or actual examples of how the V-comb (Duplex-V) fits into the mix.

Based on what I read, I expected when V-Comb combined with Single Comb, it was simply dominant, so the resulting phenotype would be a v-Comb that looked like the sire's v-Comb

This was the sire, Elvis (Golden Spangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben)
View attachment 2468822

Here's what his offspring look like at about 4.5 months old:

Cockerel
View attachment 2468823View attachment 2468824View attachment 2468825

Pullet
View attachment 2468826View attachment 2468827

So clearly a combined effect. The Dam was a Dominique, heterozygous for rose comb, so I'm not sure where the single comb came from. Dominique breed standards originally had options for both single and rose, and I know single comb genes are very difficult to breed out since rose is dominant.

There was less literature on combined V-Comb + Rose, other than they were both dominant, on separate genes and likely to combine in some way. Here's what the offspring look like that got the Dam's rose comb gene

Cockerel
View attachment 2468852View attachment 2468865View attachment 2468866

Pullet
View attachment 2468872View attachment 2468874

I have a few more experiments currently in the brooder...
Little v-comb (Spitzhauben) x Floppy single comb (Cream Legbar)
is-there-such-a-thing-as-brown-sex-link-using-barring-gene

Floppy single comb (Cream Legbar) x Rose comb (Dominique)
need-someone-who-can-read-barred-head-spots-like-tea-leaves-cream-legbar-x-dominque-chicks

(Note: I do have a cockerel from a prior Legbar x Dominique hatch who ended up with a gorgeous rose comb. Looking forward to seeing what the girls' combs will look like. )
View attachment 2468884

Ah! This is awesome. Even though I have the Houdans, I am ashamed to say I have actually not done much research on their combs. I'm still early stages of my breeding program with them and have so much work to do on type and weight that the cosmetics have just not made it to the radar.

HOWEVER, your post reminds me that elsewhere in the world Houdans actually have a "butterfly comb" which I believe to be a refined duplex single comb. I believe duplex+single comb is also responsible for the Buttercup comb... but I can't find anything that confirms that. Seeing your crosses here makes me excited about my Houdan+Legbar crosses. (They need a stupid name, don't they. Like Houbars or Legdans.)

Do you see any indication of the duplex gene at play in the pullets or in the RC cockerel?

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

... I have found very little information or actual examples of how the V-comb (Duplex-V) fits into the mix.

Based on what I read, I expected when V-Comb combined with Single Comb, it was simply dominant, so the resulting phenotype would be a v-Comb that looked like the sire's v-Comb

I agree - genetic info is hard to find for some of the rarer comb types. I did find this link that states that the V and Cup combs have a specific gene at play as follows:

sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page3.html

Duplex comb Represented as: D(v) or D(c)
Dominant alleles. The superscripts 'v' and 'c' indicate the 'V' and 'cup' shaped phenotypes and are considered to be separate genes.

I'm sure I read a different thread here on BYC once that actually discussed the V comb as a cross with a Single - that had some really great example pictures - so perhaps search through the forums to see if it's still there??

 

[SulkyBantam]

This thread is very ℹ!

 

[Poultrybonkers]

I prefer rose combs that way I never have to worry about frostbite

 

[halefamily_flock]

Ah! This is awesome. Even though I have the Houdans, I am ashamed to say I have actually not done much research on their combs. I'm still early stages of my breeding program with them and have so much work to do on type and weight that the cosmetics have just not made it to the radar.

HOWEVER, your post reminds me that elsewhere in the world Houdans actually have a "butterfly comb"

Do you see any indication of the duplex gene at play in the pullets or in the RC cockerel?

Actually, I think yours may be a Buttercup, which would be an either/or with my Spitz's V-comb, both on the Duplex gene.

Here's an article that has the diagram above and a summary of comb genetics
https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004947

Here's an excerpt...
"There are three major variant comb types found in the domestic chicken; Rose-comb, Pea-comb and Duplex-comb. Within the Duplex-comb there are two distinct types, V-shaped and Buttercup. Previous experiments have shown that these two Duplex-comb types represent different alleles at a single locus."

It then goes on to describe lots of details that a geneticist would appreciate, but are largely lost on me lol

I agree - genetic info is hard to find for some of the rarer comb types. I did find this link that states that the V and Cup combs have a specific gene at play

I think you're right. Here's the diagram I found on Pea & Rose combs (although C looks like a strange pea comb to me lol)

From this article: https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002775

So, it appears chickens have at least 3 distinct comb genes that can combine to form various mutations. Here is what I've found in existing literature

1. Single comb wild-type male: rr pp D*N
2. Pea Comb: rr P- D*N
3. Rose Comb: R- pp D*N
4. Walnut Comb: R- P- D*N
5. Duplex V Comb: rr pp [D*V (homozygous?)]
6. Duplex Buttercup Comb : rr pp [D*C (homozygous?)]

(I'm not sure the correct way to notate the D*V homo vs. heterozygous, or if that even applies to complex genes like this?)

Here's what I haven't found in literature, but appears to be happening in my experiments

1. Split Single Comb: rr pp [D*V (heterozygous)]
2. Modified rose comb: R- pp [D*V (heterozygous)]

So, maybe the Houdan experiments can help us see what happens when D*C becomes heterogygous (assuming Houdans are homozygous)? Depending what it looks like, you should totally call it a Butterfly comb!

(Disclaimer: I'm not a geneticist, so I could be completely wrong in interpreting the Duplex gene and how it interacts. Please be kind)

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

So, it appears chickens have at least 3 distinct comb genes that can combine to form various mutations. Here is what I've found in existing literature

1. Single comb wild-type male: rr pp D*N
2. Pea Comb: rr P- D*N
3. Rose Comb: R- pp D*N
4. Walnut Comb: R- P- D*N
5. Duplex V Comb: rr pp [D*V (homozygous?)]
6. Duplex Buttercup Comb : rr pp [D*C (homozygous?)

I can add the following:

Cushion = Rose+Pea+Smooth Modifier? (So essentially a smoothed Walnut)
Redcap = Rose+Rough Modifier?

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Here's what I haven't found in literature, but appears to be happening in my experiments

1. Split Single Comb: rr pp [D*V (heterozygous)]
2. Modified rose comb: R- pp [D*V (heterozygous)]

Your split single comb could either be the Duplex V variant? Or perhaps the Multi Comb modifier?? (knowledge of parentage will help to decide which)

Your modified rose comb could be the "partial expression". R/R p/p = strong expression & type. R/r p/p = still a rose comb but can vary in expression and type giving potential "poor" roses that perhaps look modified.

I haven't found any info or examples yet to confirm if it's possible to have a combined expression of Rose and Duplex V. Anyone else can add/confirm/debunk this??

 

[halefamily_flock]

Your split single comb could either be the Duplex V variant? Or perhaps the Multi Comb modifier?? (knowledge of parentage will help to decide which)

Sire was Golden Spangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, Dam was Dominique. I had assumed the Dominique hens were R/R but clearly at least one was R/r to produce my split single comb cockerel. In that hatch, I collected 10 eggs from 3 Dominique hens, who had been free ranging with 2 Spitz and 2 Cream Legbar roos. 9 of 10 turned out to be Dom-Spitz, with only 1 Dom-Bar (the photo I posted earlier with really nice rose comb). I sold 4 pullets and a cockerel before the pullet combs started really coming in, but the cockerel was looking like a rose comb. My Dom-Bar chicks in the brooder now all have the same Dominique Dam and ended up with 50% single combs, so I can eliminate her from the next round. I'm going to test out a couple of other hens, later in the year, to see if I can find any that are R/R.

Your modified rose comb could be the "partial expression". R/R p/p = strong expression & type. R/r p/p = still a rose comb but can vary in expression and type giving potential "poor" roses that perhaps look modified.

I think all of my Dominique hens have good-looking rose combs, even the one I know to be R/r. However, I will pay extra attention to that when I select hen(s) for my next test. When I combined Dominique with Legbar, the rose comb looked good. It's only the rose combs sired by a V-comb that look a little snakey vs. straight back, and the cockerel has 2 points at the top instead of 1.

 

[phasianidae]

Great discussion!

Here is one example of R/R, P/P, Dv/Dv in a rooster.

And one with R/R, Dv/Dv

 

[halefamily_flock]

Great discussion!

Here is one example of R/R, P/P, Dv/Dv in a rooster.

View attachment 2502218

And one with R/R, Dv/Dv

View attachment 2502224

Interesting! How old is the bird in the first photo? I've not seen an adult rooster with such small comb before. The 2nd one is very cool and would look great with a crest. How do you know, for sure, you have R/R and Dv/Dv? I'm trying to eliminate birds from breeding that prove to be heterozygous but it's challenging since they're both dominant. I now have a female R/r and Dv/dv, which I was thinking about breeding back to my Dv/Dv Spitz rooster. I'm still in the process of test breeding to find R/R hens. I had been collecting from multiple hens, assuming they were R/R, until I got some single combed offspring. I've been able to eliminate at least one confirmed R/r and I'm hoping to confirm at least one R/R Dominique hen and one Hamburg this year to use in upcoming experiments.