muscovy - atipico & wild tpye genes

[ian4379]

hi all.

i need some help with genetics here. here's a bit of a puzzle in one of my breeding pens, bearing in mind that i know how to identify the difference between the two but other than that nothing.

drake silver - unknown type

drake into atipco duck produced 100% atipico offspring(afterthought:8 of these ducklings have no pigment thus far so possible wild types as well)
same drake into unknown duck produced 2 wild type 8 atipico
same drake into atipico duck produced so far(today wiht 4 more to hatch) 7 wild type 2 atipico

does this mean that my drake is atipico but carries one dose of wild type(is this possible?) or is he in fact wild type?

second question, does either of these types affect the general size and type(shape) of the birds? eg, will i get bigger more show looking birds from atipico?

 

[Miss Lydia]

Quote:
I can't answer your questions but would love to see some pictures. of said ducks.

 

[rollyard]

Your Silver drake should be heterozygous A+/a (where A+ is wild-type, & a is dusky) shouldn't he? According to theory Atipico (dusky) is autosomal & recessive to wild-type allele. Based on 3rd scenario, ie, "same drake into atipico duck produced so far(today wiht 4 more to hatch) 7 wild type 2 atipico", if your duck phenotypically dusky, & dusky recessive to wild-type, then she should be pure for dusky, ie a/a! So approx 50% wild-type & 50% dusky ducklings could be expecteded according to probability (Drake = A+/a, Duck = a/a):-

50% a/a (pure dusky) both sexes, &
50% A+/a (phenotypically wild-type with hidden dusky) both sexes

If your dusky duck in first scenario, ie, "drake into atipco duck produced 100% atipico offspring(afterthought:8 of these ducklings have no pigment thus far so possible wild types as well)", is pure for dusky, then producing @ least some dusky ducklings again suggests that your drake does have the recessive allele; as does the second scenario, "same drake into unknown duck produced 2 wild type 8 atipico", because dusky being recessive (& autosomal) means one dose from both parents required in progeny bred for phenotype to express. Second scenario doesn't necesarily indicate that your Silver drake has the more dominant wild-type (A+) allele expressed in ducklings produced though because that may have come from the unknown duck.

Sometimes other factors in a particular mix can cause recessives otherwise hidden to express, so everything is not always as it would seem!

 

[hossfeathers]

Could someone explain 'atipico' for those of us who were asleep in the back of the class?

Thanks muchly!

*is busy scribbling notes about genetics*

 

[D'Angelo N Va.]

Quote:
Omg yes please. I was feeling really stupid here.

 

[ian4379]

ok, there are two types of muscovy,

wild type - which as a young duckling has a stripe on the sides of its head and 4 yellow spots on its back

atipico or "dusky" which is all one colour, no stripes or dots.

i cant ellaborate further, dont have the knowledge, still learning, up until 6 months ago i knew nothing about genetics

apparently to breed for solid colour it is better to use atipco ducklings than wild type ducklings as wild type ducks/drakes develop more white on the wings as they age. i'm not 100% on that its just what ive read/been told.

some pics of ducklings at one day old. for those interested dad is silver mum is blue.

wild type blue- notice the stripe on the side of the head and the yellow spots

atipico blue - no spots no stripes

together - you can see front left and right atipco ducklings amongst wild type

dad around 9 months here- interestingly he is currently moulting into a true darker silver rather than a bit washed out

mum - at around 5 months here

 

[AquaEyes]

Ian, you are my new Muscovy friend.....thank you for the explanation, and the pictures. I'd seen this trait mentioned, but no one elaborated further. So the main difference is in chick down color, and that atipico birds have less white on the wings....sounds like another trait to add to my list for my future flock. Thanks!

 

[learycow]

There is so much to learn about the muscovy breed and the colors!
Does anybody know of any good books on muscovy genetics? I would be very interested!

 

[rollyard]

I have taken to call atipico dusky but call it what you will; one study (PDF) Here found the mutation (atipico) in Muscovy to be homologous with the dusky gene in mallard derived birds.

I didn't notice one part of original question. Dusky (or atipico) Muscovy are reportedly better for making some colours for showing as they don't have the brown feather colouration to the same degree (if @ all) as wild-type. So nice clean Lavenders, Blacks etc. This may have led to some fanciers selecting Dusky over wild-type for show birds with more work done on them resulting in better type, size etc dusky birds in some instances?

 

[iajewel]

There is a Muscovy genetic thread started earlier today to try and keep all this in one local.
Here are some photos of some of my "dusky" ducklings. As you can see there are 3 shades from dark to dilute to double dilute. Sorry about the mess in the brooder. I clean it every day, but you know ducklings. Its sort of hard to see the olive green under coat on them too.
I have a drake that is bronze and blue, I will try and get a good pic of him tomorrow.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us