Wow, that's as stupid as someone rubbing their puppies nose in feces to teach them not to have an accident in the house. I agree, your dog probably trusts you a bunch!
My adopted dog killed my rooster and 4 chickens...
- Thread starter wellwornsoles
- Start date
Good morning, welcome to byc.
Sorry about your tragedy. I am so glad you adopt and not shop! I am also glad you are taking steps to correct the issue instead of ditching the dog. I just posted to someone who was getting rid of their dog for the same reason, they didn't have adequate predator prevention. If a dog can get in your run, so can a lot of other predators.
The buried fencing and electric fence are both great suggestions. Sometimes the dog doesn't even understand that a shock collar is associated to the specific issue and just causes them to be neurotic cuz they don't know what to do. While you were gone, the dog probably got bored. It didn't get enough exercise during that time. Those 2 things cause even normally well behaved dogs to look for mischief. And what's better than some squawking rapidly moving anything?
Some dogs can be trained and other can't, as someone else already mentioned. I have a ton of suggestions. But just to keep it simple, make sure your dog is WELL exercised before you try training. Keep the dog on a leash attached to you as you do your chores and provide a gentle correction every time you see the dogs focus zero in. When you stop the dog from doing 1 thing, I find it best to provide direction what to do instead. Don't just say no, give them their alternative, like a toy or another activity. Our pup (now dog) used to nibble our hand when she was excited. We taught her to get a toy in her mouth. Now she will pick up anything (toilet paper rolls are a lot of fun), and wag and dance. When a dog needs to chew, don't just take away what they can't have, show them what they can. This has worked really well for us. And even when introducing new animals. Dogs are also sneaky and will do behind your back what they can't get away with in front of you sometimes (sneaking a wrapper from the trash). One of my dogs used to go collect an egg when she wanted me to know she needed attention. She would bring it right to me to say "pay attention". We have always started introducing ours as chicks since dogs were here fist (different than your case). Even though they are not usually happy about it, they still comply. Out of my 3 dogs, I know which 1 to be worried about, so we do extra training before freedom. Also maybe while on your lead, Loretta can see the other dogs' interaction with the birds and follow suit.
I am sure as you continue to build a relationship with the dog, it will be happy to please you. (Prey drive may or may not be able to train out).
If you have to be gone that long, maybe you can get a dog sitter or lock up your birds while your gone (figuring the dogs need to use the yard).
Best wishes!
Sorry about your tragedy. I am so glad you adopt and not shop! I am also glad you are taking steps to correct the issue instead of ditching the dog. I just posted to someone who was getting rid of their dog for the same reason, they didn't have adequate predator prevention. If a dog can get in your run, so can a lot of other predators.
The buried fencing and electric fence are both great suggestions. Sometimes the dog doesn't even understand that a shock collar is associated to the specific issue and just causes them to be neurotic cuz they don't know what to do. While you were gone, the dog probably got bored. It didn't get enough exercise during that time. Those 2 things cause even normally well behaved dogs to look for mischief. And what's better than some squawking rapidly moving anything?
Some dogs can be trained and other can't, as someone else already mentioned. I have a ton of suggestions. But just to keep it simple, make sure your dog is WELL exercised before you try training. Keep the dog on a leash attached to you as you do your chores and provide a gentle correction every time you see the dogs focus zero in. When you stop the dog from doing 1 thing, I find it best to provide direction what to do instead. Don't just say no, give them their alternative, like a toy or another activity. Our pup (now dog) used to nibble our hand when she was excited. We taught her to get a toy in her mouth. Now she will pick up anything (toilet paper rolls are a lot of fun), and wag and dance. When a dog needs to chew, don't just take away what they can't have, show them what they can. This has worked really well for us. And even when introducing new animals. Dogs are also sneaky and will do behind your back what they can't get away with in front of you sometimes (sneaking a wrapper from the trash). One of my dogs used to go collect an egg when she wanted me to know she needed attention. She would bring it right to me to say "pay attention". We have always started introducing ours as chicks since dogs were here fist (different than your case). Even though they are not usually happy about it, they still comply. Out of my 3 dogs, I know which 1 to be worried about, so we do extra training before freedom. Also maybe while on your lead, Loretta can see the other dogs' interaction with the birds and follow suit.
I am sure as you continue to build a relationship with the dog, it will be happy to please you. (Prey drive may or may not be able to train out).
If you have to be gone that long, maybe you can get a dog sitter or lock up your birds while your gone (figuring the dogs need to use the yard).
Best wishes!
For digging, a couple suggestions...
Bury their own poo there, sprinkle with cayenne or black pepper since they usually sniff before digging. It's worth trying. A layer of rocks works well at certain locations. I think for you, more adequate predator proofing is just a good idea to protect from others as well. Buried hardware cloth, no chicken wire.
Also, my dogs don't try to dig out, but they are usually going after moles/gophers. And some dogs dig a hole to lay in and cool off.
Good luck!
Bury their own poo there, sprinkle with cayenne or black pepper since they usually sniff before digging. It's worth trying. A layer of rocks works well at certain locations. I think for you, more adequate predator proofing is just a good idea to protect from others as well. Buried hardware cloth, no chicken wire.
Also, my dogs don't try to dig out, but they are usually going after moles/gophers. And some dogs dig a hole to lay in and cool off.
Good luck!
turboscooby07
In the Brooder
Wow...abused dog...coming from the same forum who suggests tying a dead chicken around their neck for days. I didnt say hold the dog down and drown it. It should be assumed the misbehaving dog was caught in the act and adjusted. You certainly can rub a nose in feces if caught in the act. My dogs and I have great trust in each other. Maybe other peoples timid apartment bred dogs have thin trust and small hearts....
Spend more time with your dogs and dont give them the opportunity to do wrong and everybody will be better for it.
Spend more time with your dogs and dont give them the opportunity to do wrong and everybody will be better for it.
Well, I certainly didn't say I think the dead chicken thing is right. It's true, a dog will at least have the chance to make the association to said behavior if the correction is done at the time of the act (it was not presumed on my part). The OP wanted suggestions and yours' was as valid as any. What works for 1 might not work for another, and that is what makes it great to have so many choices.
As for people's timid apartment sized dogs, I've seen some of those with the tenacity of a pit bull and the heart of a whale. My dogs are normal sized and have different personalities. I spend more time with them than I could care to account for, they even follow me to the bathroom. All 3 are rescues and enjoy full run of the house 24/7. But it did take time and training and we built trust through those experiences. I learn something new everyday, sometimes about myself. Which leads me to ponder why I had such a reaction?
You can rub a nose in feces if you choose. To each there own. It certainly will not be the most atrocious thing in the headlines.
Anyways, I mean you no ill will.
I once had two feist squirrel dogs that I never stopped from killing chickens. At least the ones that managed to fly into the dogs' pen. An electric fence is IMHO the most humane method of breaking a chicken killing dog. Just like this brave pooch who it seems has bigger ambitions than stones.
Well, I certainly didn't say I think the dead chicken thing is right. It's true, a dog will at least have the chance to make the association to said behavior if the correction is done at the time of the act (it was not presumed on my part). The OP wanted suggestions and yours' was as valid as any. What works for 1 might not work for another, and that is what makes it great to have so many choices.
As for people's timid apartment sized dogs, I've seen some of those with the tenacity of a pit bull and the heart of a whale. My dogs are normal sized and have different personalities. I spend more time with them than I could care to account for, they even follow me to the bathroom. All 3 are rescues and enjoy full run of the house 24/7. But it did take time and training and we built trust through those experiences. I learn something new everyday, sometimes about myself. Which leads me to ponder why I had such a reaction?
You can rub a nose in feces if you choose. To each there own. It certainly will not be the most atrocious thing in the headlines.
Anyways, I mean you no ill will.
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Well, I certainly didn't say I think the dead chicken thing is right. It's true, a dog will at least have the chance to make the association to said behavior if the correction is done at the time of the act (it was not presumed on my part). The OP wanted suggestions and yours' was as valid as any. What works for 1 might not work for another, and that is what makes it great to have so many choices.
As for people's timid apartment sized dogs, I've seen some of those with the tenacity of a pit bull and the heart of a whale. My dogs are normal sized and have different personalities. I spend more time with them than I could care to account for, they even follow me to the bathroom. All 3 are rescues and enjoy full run of the house 24/7. But it did take time and training and we built trust through those experiences. I learn something new everyday, sometimes about myself. Which leads me to ponder why I had such a reaction?
You can rub a nose in feces if you choose. To each there own. It certainly will not be the most atrocious thing in the headlines.
Anyways, I mean you no ill will.
The idea is to sicken the dog with the presence, sight, and smell of chickens. Before Electric Shock collars came on the market the only way to make an incorrigible dog swear off chicken killing was the dead chicken around the neck method.
The down side of this method is that in warm weather it will result in the poor pooch not getting or giving any sugar from or to its humans.
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BrushyHillGuide
Chirping
- Oct 17, 2015
- 49
- 2
- 74
I may be relatively new to chickens (1 year) but I'm certainly not new to dogs or predators. I make my living from hunting and I use dogs extensively for tracking wounded game, recovering wounded animals and hunting/decoying animals including predators - dogs I train. My dogs will drag down a wounded trophy buck, a 300 pound hog or engage a pair of coyotes; but they've learned that our chickens and our cats are NO-NO's!! They all share the same 24 acres. We lost 1 chicken in the process and 1 of my 5 working dogs has to stay on a tie-out because he can't "get with the program." Now that he has bred our female, he will be re-homed. I will not tolerate dogs that can't get with the program; and this one is more aggressive than necessary for my work anyway. So, no big loss.
I said all this only to establish a few bonafides on the topic of dog training. Truly, your (OP's) question is better asked on a dog forum than on here. This is a chicken forum, not a dog forum; and your issue is with dog training, not chicken training.
All that said, the single easiest option is to segregate your dog and your chickens. If you wish to train your dog to leave your chickens alone, you must have control of your dog. I don't mean a leash. I mean, your dog must respect and obey your voice and your command voice; and I mean, EVERY time and without hesitation. Or, you need to have a way to reinforce your command at a distance. I'm talking about an e-collar. What USED to be called a shock collar. Even when you have a well trained dog that responds to commands, a e-collar is indispensable when correcting a dog's natural prey-drive.
The best thing is to read a book about how to use an e-collar properly but it boils down to this: An e-collar is not used as a punishment but as a way to reinforce a command the dog already knows. You use the very lightest setting to correct a dog - the amount of shock needed is minimal and should not hurt the dog.
Here's an example: Assuming the dog has an idea what "sit" means, you put the collar on the dog and, just as you utter the word "sit," you provide a stimulus to the dog (through the collar) and continue to keep the pressure on until you see the dog begin to sit. The instant they begin to comply with the command you stop the stimulus/shock. A dog has 2 options when you give it a command- it can either comply or not comply. The idea with the pressure during the command and the release of pressure the instant the dog complies is to 'make it easier for the dog to do the right thing than do the wrong thing.' The key to this is NOTthe giving of pressure/shock, it's the RELEASE of pressure!! In a nut shell, that's how e-collar training is done properly. However, you should also be aware how to apply the maximum possible pressure if the dog attacks a chicken; or does anything that puts the dog's life in danger or another unwanted scenario, like running into a highway. I will not hesitate to deliver a shock that will buckle my dog's knees in order to stop him from chasing a feral hog onto a highway or any other activity where his instinct overwhelms his brain and puts himself or me in a compromising situation. Training dogs to do anything is a process and can be very rewarding but it can be somewhat complicated depending on the dog or the task. That's why there are so many books out there. Read books on training "working" or "hunting" dogs and not some namby-pamby lap dog or city dog training book like those from Caesar whatever-his-name-is. They might be ok to teach a lap dog to wee-wee on a pad or not suffer heartbreak when you leave the room; but those kinds of "trainers" are clueless how to train a country dog or true working dog.
Methods like tying a chicken to the neck are ridiculous. Dogs will roll voluntarily on dead animals - my dogs will hit every carcass dump on every ranch we work. Lol. So, tying a dead chicken to a dog is silly - they LIKE it! It might seem repulsive to a human, but in dog-speak you're rewarding them by doing it. This method is just a wives tale. It's kinda like the old belief that if you hang a dead coyote on a fence, it'll keep other coyotes away. Utter nonsense and completely untrue; but a ridiculous number of my clients insist that I do just that with the coyotes I kill for them. Doesn't help a bit but 'client is always right!' LMAO! Your much more likely to have success by dragging your dog up the the chicken it just killed and whooping it's butt while yelling "NO!" And "BAD DOG!" This will work to a degree but it's not nearly as effective as providing a solid groundwork of commands to the dog, as a basis for advanced training; and then using an e-collar to reinforce that training when the dog is off line and commingling with the chickens. You can NOT teach a dog 2 things at once. So, if it doesn't know what "NO" means, an e-collar is all but useless.
It's very hard to give you every bit of training instructions you could need in a post. PM me if you want more training info. I'm happy to help. I believe that most dogs, especially pets (as opposed to working dogs), can be trained to cohabitate with any farm animal.
Just out of curiosity, how is it that you're "homesteading" without any experience with either dogs or chickens?? Pretty unusual.
Hope this helps!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I said all this only to establish a few bonafides on the topic of dog training. Truly, your (OP's) question is better asked on a dog forum than on here. This is a chicken forum, not a dog forum; and your issue is with dog training, not chicken training.
All that said, the single easiest option is to segregate your dog and your chickens. If you wish to train your dog to leave your chickens alone, you must have control of your dog. I don't mean a leash. I mean, your dog must respect and obey your voice and your command voice; and I mean, EVERY time and without hesitation. Or, you need to have a way to reinforce your command at a distance. I'm talking about an e-collar. What USED to be called a shock collar. Even when you have a well trained dog that responds to commands, a e-collar is indispensable when correcting a dog's natural prey-drive.
The best thing is to read a book about how to use an e-collar properly but it boils down to this: An e-collar is not used as a punishment but as a way to reinforce a command the dog already knows. You use the very lightest setting to correct a dog - the amount of shock needed is minimal and should not hurt the dog.
Here's an example: Assuming the dog has an idea what "sit" means, you put the collar on the dog and, just as you utter the word "sit," you provide a stimulus to the dog (through the collar) and continue to keep the pressure on until you see the dog begin to sit. The instant they begin to comply with the command you stop the stimulus/shock. A dog has 2 options when you give it a command- it can either comply or not comply. The idea with the pressure during the command and the release of pressure the instant the dog complies is to 'make it easier for the dog to do the right thing than do the wrong thing.' The key to this is NOTthe giving of pressure/shock, it's the RELEASE of pressure!! In a nut shell, that's how e-collar training is done properly. However, you should also be aware how to apply the maximum possible pressure if the dog attacks a chicken; or does anything that puts the dog's life in danger or another unwanted scenario, like running into a highway. I will not hesitate to deliver a shock that will buckle my dog's knees in order to stop him from chasing a feral hog onto a highway or any other activity where his instinct overwhelms his brain and puts himself or me in a compromising situation. Training dogs to do anything is a process and can be very rewarding but it can be somewhat complicated depending on the dog or the task. That's why there are so many books out there. Read books on training "working" or "hunting" dogs and not some namby-pamby lap dog or city dog training book like those from Caesar whatever-his-name-is. They might be ok to teach a lap dog to wee-wee on a pad or not suffer heartbreak when you leave the room; but those kinds of "trainers" are clueless how to train a country dog or true working dog.
Methods like tying a chicken to the neck are ridiculous. Dogs will roll voluntarily on dead animals - my dogs will hit every carcass dump on every ranch we work. Lol. So, tying a dead chicken to a dog is silly - they LIKE it! It might seem repulsive to a human, but in dog-speak you're rewarding them by doing it. This method is just a wives tale. It's kinda like the old belief that if you hang a dead coyote on a fence, it'll keep other coyotes away. Utter nonsense and completely untrue; but a ridiculous number of my clients insist that I do just that with the coyotes I kill for them. Doesn't help a bit but 'client is always right!' LMAO! Your much more likely to have success by dragging your dog up the the chicken it just killed and whooping it's butt while yelling "NO!" And "BAD DOG!" This will work to a degree but it's not nearly as effective as providing a solid groundwork of commands to the dog, as a basis for advanced training; and then using an e-collar to reinforce that training when the dog is off line and commingling with the chickens. You can NOT teach a dog 2 things at once. So, if it doesn't know what "NO" means, an e-collar is all but useless.
It's very hard to give you every bit of training instructions you could need in a post. PM me if you want more training info. I'm happy to help. I believe that most dogs, especially pets (as opposed to working dogs), can be trained to cohabitate with any farm animal.
Just out of curiosity, how is it that you're "homesteading" without any experience with either dogs or chickens?? Pretty unusual.
Hope this helps!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@BrushyHillGuide, your post makes sense. It hadn't crossed my mind, but you are right my dogs LOVE rolling in dead stuff! Every chance they get. Doesn't matter if we're at the beach, on a trail, or at home.
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