New Call Duck Colors... what do you think?

[Wynette]

Folks, I've heavily edited this thread due to the many, many snarky comments.

The OP did not ask for a critique on the conformation of her birds...some of you felt you had to give your opinion anyway. While it's fine to do so, you must be helpful and kind (you all agreed to the rules upon joining BYC....please refresh your memory on them).

Also, there's no reason this thread should have gotten to 9 pages before someone reported it. Shame on those of you LONGSTANDING members (you know who you are) that did not do so. You know better.

Now...play nice.

 

[KateBeauchemin]

Please send your email address via PM to me, if you'd like updates on my research.

 

[CityChicker]

Kate... without me reading back through the whole thread, what are you looking for an answer to? I'm sorry, I have been sick the last few months and not able to keep up with the board as much as I have in the past. There really shouldn't be much to research (breeding test wise) as the genes you are working with are very well established and have been so for decades. I am a little confused by your using the term "splash" though in connection with various colors, so please clarify if you mean something else like excess white (all forms of which are also pretty well established). Splash in ducks is used in a way similar to splash in chickens. It is the result of homozygous Blue on extended black (in the Mallard derived breeds of ducks). Blue in ducks is incompletely dominant, as it is in chickens, so for example when you breed two Blue in the extended Black series together, you will get 25% Splash/Silver.

Anyway, as far as the Lilac/Lavender, it is in the extended black series as well- black plus homozygous blue and sex-linked brown dilution. How the genes work and their dominance has been established for many decades and it is a pretty easy color to breed for. I get questions about the color fairly regularly and as I have told other people, it is a rather easy, straight forward color to breed for, the problem is getting the color to look decent. The reason being is that all of the dilution genes found in the mallard derived breeds tend to lighten the plumage (often quite dramatically). If you look at birds that are even just extended Black with double Blue dilution (Silver Cayugas, Silver/Splash Swedish, etc...), the Blue dilution alone can lighten a solid black duck to almost white. When you add the sex-linked brown dilution to the mix, the plumage can be lightened even further and you basically end up with a lot of ducks that are pretty much white (feather wise).

I have no doubt the fact that the color is so hard to get to look decent is the main reason you don't see more of it. I am assuming the site you mention must be the calculator Henk created (he is a member here, but seldom posts in the duck section as ducks are really not his thing). If you have a link, I would love to check it out (if it is some other site). If it is Henk's site, I am not sure if he used the same genotype for Lilac and for Lavender. I gave him a PDF with all the duck genotypes a couple years ago now and on that it had "Lilac" listed as the same genotype as Lavender (extended Black, homozygous Blue dilution, and sex-linked Brown dilution, E/E, Bl/Bl, d/d). I would imagine the calculator you are using has them as the same as well, but it might be better for everyone to use Lilac for a different genotype (which is probably how it was originally), like perhaps the heterozygous birds (good luck though telling them from the others that are true Lavender).

Anyway, I hope this helps! Good luck with your project! It seems like everyone I have known of that has worked on that color has just given up because only maybe 1 in 20 come out actually looking Lavender. I know I have seen some awesome Runners in Europe in the Lavender color and to the best of my knowledge they are using the same genotype so it must be possible (to get the color to look decent, not basically so diluted it is white). You will probably just have to cull, cull, cull to get the color to actually look consistently Lavender. The recipe though for how to get to the correct genotype is well established. You are only dealing with those couple genes and it is very well known that Blue is incompletely dominant and Brown is a sex-linked recessive.

For further clarification, extended Black is an allele of the wild Mallard pattern. It basically turns a duck solid Black other than when certain other genes, like those for areas of White are present. All of these colors you are working with are on that extended Black base color/pattern (E/E)....

Black = Extended Black (E/E)
Blue = Extended Black plus single Blue dilution (E/E, Bl/bl)
Silver/Splash = Extended Black plus double Blue dilution (E/E, Bl/Bl)
Chocolate = Extended Black plus sex-linked Brown dilution (E/E, d/d or d/-)
Lavender = Extended Black plus double Blue dilution and sex-linked Brown dilution (E/E, Bl/Bl, d/d)
Lilac = Extended Black plus single Blue dilution and sex-linked Brown dilution (E/E, Bl/bl, d/d) *My thoughts on Lilac anyway.

As you can see, the colors are all closely related being in the same series. The variations in these colors are just the result basically of the different combinations of only a few genes. When you understand how they work to create the colors, it is very easy to predict breeding results and mate birds of the different colors together. It is all very predicable and well established (these colors/genes anyway! LOL). Again, good luck and I hope this helps!

 

[duckluck]

Quote:

So, *when* is the publishing date on that book, anyway?

 

[CityChicker]

LOL, one of these days duckluck! I have been so snowed under lately I don't even have time to keep up with emails, so the book will have to wait until I have some down time. Thank you for the encouragement though! It is nice to know that some people here do appreciate the advice and the time it takes to give it.

 

[KateBeauchemin]

Alot of information that's for sure and good stuff too! I know about the snow situation LOL!!! And everyone and their brother around here has the flu, so I'm with you there about not being able to post very often.

The site is... http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingEend.html

It's just something I happened upon on night will looking for the lilac color we got last year.

I have gotten a 'lilac color' drake a few weeks ago, and also a splash hen, (see pics in the post.) I'm not sure what she is. MJ Fowls is who they are from, they emailed and said that they were from his blue bibbed experiments. Also he has grey calls they originated from, so at least i have a basis to start from with his genetics, just been to tired and physically whipped lately to make myself think anymore then I need too.

I'm going to put each hen with lilac drake, and use the calculator as a guide/guesstimate, just to see if it proves true. My sister-in-law is going to loan me a few chocolate hens, also, to put in with him. It computes to 50/50 lilac and chocolate. With splash hen it's 50% lilac, 50% splash. So I guess I will have to wait until these guys and girls get together to see if they make what it says.

Thanks so much for the information, I didn't want you to think I didn't appreciate it. Just been busy with home stuff and health issues not hobby stuff lately.

Let me know when the book comes out. I'll buy it for sure.... Now to go back and read what else I've missed on here...

 

[Luvducks]

Quote:
Oh, Kate, how EXCITING!!!!! I won a pair of Chocolates on BdiBird and they could not ship because of weather so still waing! I will be buying the BOOK too!

 

[KateBeauchemin]

Quote:
I love this ducky!!! Looks almost like a magpied blue color, but with some brown. I like it. My 2 drakes are lighter but the color is similar... COOOL!!!! So would Noodle be a lilac magpie.... I think so.

I look at my sister-in-laws lilac hen she looks almost identical to by drakes. And i know her genetics. So here goes the breeding program!!! Can't wait until this freezing rain stops and i can get my pens up.

Also having to watch my new bator like a hawk, asked hubby to and came home it was at 106 i cried. But everyone is still moving around in the eggs. So i hoping they can make it another week, then they'll be outside with my broodies, they are eagerly waiting!!!! So are we. These eggs are my sisters stock. Whites, crested whites, chocolates, black bibbed, and lilac.

Wonder what we're going to get this hatch. Oh and she is giving me 30 call eggs this wednesday to go to broodies. I love my girls so much! They are worth more then gold to us. (Their eggs are in the bator too) I will have all my nesting boxes full of broodies come fall LOL!!!!

 

[StevenW.]

Ohh my just love me some calls

Very pretty colors BTW

 

[KateBeauchemin]

Thank so much for all the positive feedback everyone on the colors and thank you for the pics as well!!!

Was going back through mine and found my first pic of picking Princess, blk sexlink/silkie hen, with 1st baby.

Then they just kept on coming!!!

This is Gus.

I thought Gus was going to be a Special Needs duck. He sat like a dog for almost 2 days. And would fall over. But my sister in law put them with her other duck and he's great! His feet were HUGE!!! They actually came out of the egg first LOL!!!