New Here. New Chicken Owner. Aggrevated.

[SourRoses]

You're good! It's okay.
It sounds like you've worked hard to educate yourself and invested a lot of effort in your birds. There will be things to learn along the way but some of that will be particular to your environment and breeds / individuals.

Cocci can be challenging because some strains don't present the same symptoms, and it is *everywhere* (in the water, dirt, on surfaces, etc.).
We have that challenge here, there can be no signs and otherwise robust birds, then *bam*. So, I've learned to be extra diligent about when to medicate.

I'm also slowly trying to teach myself that I cannot control all things. I tend to take on a lot of responsibility for how things turn out and that is not logical. It sounds like you might be suffering the same thing. We can only do our best and pray.

 

[Brooks_]

you should probably use layer pellets.

I strongly disagree with this. For one, layer was developed for best feed to production ratio on confined birds that would not be kept more than two years. Second, even layers will not need all that calcium all the time - molt, slowed winter production, illness/injury, low production breed.

I consider 20% starter/grower/all flock with oyster shell and grit on the side to be the gold standard.

I have fed my roosters layer pellets with the girls for 10 years without issues. I have had 17 roosters before. The ones that passed were due to old age or other reasons.

I seriously ask if you've had necropsies done to confirm this? I ask because I've seen others make the same claim and have yet to see a necropsy report.

 

[Owl Creek]

First of all, you should probably use layer pellets. Second, I believe that "mixed" flocks are those that have other types of poultry mixed in, such geese or ducks. I wouldn't feed them just flock raiser. Third it sounds like there aren't any real issues with your chickens.

I had them on layer feed when I first got them and they were supposed to be 8 hens. A couple months into it; one ended up being a rooster. 4 months later; he got sick out of nowhere. I didn't have a local vet who could see him. He was lethargic, couldn't stand or hold his head up. His beak was open and he was breathing deep and slow.

I made the decision to cull him because I had no answers and he was suffering. I consider myself a relatively strong person but that was tough.

As I read more and more; I thought I messed up with the layer feed and made him sick. I read it could have been 500 things. Without a necropsy or a clue; I treated for Coccidia, took their 9x16 run and turned it into (2) 12x36 runs, stopped feeding treats more than a couple times a week, stopped putting ACV in their water and put poop boards under the roost. Now I pay too much attention.

When one of the babies turned out to be a rooster; I was happy and decided I would transition the flock to an all flock crumble. I keep a bowl of grit and a bowl of oyster shell available all the time.

I have noticed that this rooster is much larger than Cluck was; at least twice the size.

Flock raiser is appropriate feed for all genders and ages of poultry (hence the name). Layer pellets are okay with all laying hens, but OP has a cockerel and there is some potential for organ damage with increased calcium intake over time.

That is what I was reading and what the vet recommended when he came out.

You're good! It's okay.
It sounds like you've worked hard to educate yourself and invested a lot of effort in your birds. There will be things to learn along the way but some of that will be particular to your environment and breeds / individuals.

Cocci can be challenging because some strains don't present the same symptoms, and it is *everywhere* (in the water, dirt, on surfaces, etc.).
We have that challenge here, there can be no signs and otherwise robust birds, then *bam*. So, I've learned to be extra diligent about when to medicate.

I'm also slowly trying to teach myself that I cannot control all things. I tend to take on a lot of responsibility for how things turn out and that is not logical. It sounds like you might be suffering the same thing. We can only do our best and pray.

I thought I had done enough research actually. Didn't get them until I felt confident I knew enough. Come to find out; I didn't know enough. I also found out the importance of "validated opinion".

For example; one person may say "I give my chickens candy every morning and have for years with no issues." - Come to find out the truth of that would be something like the chickens free range; they hardly see them and chickens dying from the candy and being carried off ended up being assumed they were just picked off by a predator. See my point? So; I want as much info as possible.

If I am going to do something, I want to do it right. If another living thing is counting on me to do it right and I don't, I take it personally. If I failed my wife, I would feel the same way. It drives me bonkers. Seems the older I get the worse I hold myself accountable if even its illogical . I end up overthinking.

We cannot control all things but I want to. I want to prevent everything bad from happening to every living thing and I can't and it aggravates me. I think knowing that I can't makes it easier to be harder on myself for not doing enough. I have to turn the channel when the ASPCA or the St. Jude Children's commercials come on. Don't like to see them. Same for you?

We have horses too and when our young Friesian suffered colic; we first blamed ourselves for maybe mold in his feed. Thankfully we took him to state and he was there for 2 weeks but made it out without surgery. When we were able to focus on how it happened we found the place we boarded him put him in the pasture that he wasn't supposed to go into because of the trees and plants that were in there. We knew what things he needed to be kept away from and they didn't do it. The pasture was full of black walnut trees. He was just a baby and got into them. We moved him to a friends house as we pursued our own place. Then my wife's parents fell ill and we moved back closer to them. They passed in 2021. We are back to pursuing another homestead. We still are very careful to make sure the feed and hay quality is the best possible. The anxiety eventually went away. I am thinking it will with the chickens as well.

Sometimes I wish I could just be irresponsible and not care lol

 

[theoldchick]

Chickens can make some nasty looking poop. And if you don't know what is normal you will be totally freaked out.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=f53c...b3Atb24tY2hpY2tlbi1wb29wLWRpZ2VzdGl2ZS8&ntb=1

 

[Owl Creek]

Thanks! I have seen that one before but it's a bookmark on my phone lol

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

Welcome to BYC! It sounds like you are a very attentive chicken keeper and I think you are doing great. If the vet said it was intestinal lining, I would trust that. As for the "grainy" poop, I wouldn't worry TOO much about it, but just keep an eye on it. If the treats you give have seeds in them (maybe the poultry cakes you mentioned), sometimes those don't digest much before coming out the other end, at least in my experience. Some of the smaller seeds like millet tend to just go right through them. I wonder if it's something like this that you are seeing. Also, if your chickens eat grass and plants outdoors, it can kind of make the poop have a somewhat grainy texture.

I think you are doing great. I've been keeping chickens about the same amount of time as you so I am no expert. But I've learned a lot on here and it sounds like you are doing pretty well and might be worrying too much because you care so much for your chickens.

Edit: I found this link on an old post on BYC the other day when I thought I was seeing blood in my chicken's poop. These pictures helped me tell that it was just the intestinal lining. It also has pictures of what different health issues look like. https://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=17568.0

 

[Brooks_]

I thought I had done enough research actually. Didn't get them until I felt confident I knew enough. Come to find out; I didn't know enough

Most of us started that way. Sure some grew up in farm/homestead and knew most all by the time they had "their" chickens and a few ran out and got them without knowing anything. But most of us learned what we could before getting hands on to start to find out what else we needed to learn.

 

[Owl Creek]

Welcome to BYC! It sounds like you are a very attentive chicken keeper and I think you are doing great. If the vet said it was intestinal lining, I would trust that. As for the "grainy" poop, I wouldn't worry TOO much about it, but just keep an eye on it. If the treats you give have seeds in them (maybe the poultry cakes you mentioned), sometimes those don't digest much before coming out the other end, at least in my experience. Some of the smaller seeds like millet tend to just go right through them. I wonder if it's something like this that you are seeing. Also, if your chickens eat grass and plants outdoors, it can kind of make the poop have a somewhat grainy texture.

I think you are doing great. I've been keeping chickens about the same amount of time as you so I am no expert. But I've learned a lot on here and it sounds like you are doing pretty well and might be worrying too much because you care so much for your chickens.

Edit: I found this link on an old post on BYC the other day when I thought I was seeing blood in my chicken's poop. These pictures helped me tell that it was just the intestinal lining. It also has pictures of what different health issues look like. https://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=17568.0

The corral colored urates is EXACTLY what I am seeing. Whew! Glad I joined; that's just the thread I need lol Everything I have been seeing is there under normal.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The corral colored urates is EXACTLY what I am seeing. Whew! Glad I joined; that's just the thread I need lol Everything I have been seeing is there under normal.

This is why you should never hesitate to ask on here if you have a concern and engage in conversation when somebody responds. Sometimes it takes some back and forth to figure out what is going on. Glad you got a resolution, that took some work.

Practically anything you or your chickens eat contain something that could be harmful if consumed in great enough concentrations. One example is white potatoes. You see several warnings about them eating white potatoes on here and there is a substance in white potatoes, solanine, that can cause harm to you and the chickens. There is a basis of fact in that but there is a catch. For you to try to off your spouse by feeding them white potatoes you'd need to get a normal healthy human to eat 50 pounds or so at one meal. At one meal because the body is pretty good at removing that poison so it doesn't build up. I can't eat 50 pounds of potatoes at one meal. Chickens are not as big as a human so they would not need to eat 50 pounds, but their crop can't hold the amount of white potatoes it would take for them to get sick.

But there is another side to this. If the potatoes get sunburned and turn green the solanine concentration goes way up. They become dangerous to you and the chickens, especially if you or they are not real healthy. So white potatoes good. Sunburned green potatoes bad. The devil is in the details.

On the calcium, there are plenty of studies that show that the amount of calcium in Layer feed (around 4%) can harm chickens that are not laying if that feed is all they eat. In those studies they don't just count how many die, they cut them open to see what the damage is inside. Most of the studies I've seen were on growing chicks but one was on breeding roosters. Those studies are clear, some can be damaged by the extra calcium. Some, not all. That means some are, enough that you are warned against it. It is consistent that some are in different studies. Those don't always die, sometimes the damage just means they are weakened so they are not as efficient as they could be or to the point that stress could cause medical issues.

One bite won't kill them. It is not about how much calcium is in one bite, it's how many total grams of calcium they eat in the day, and even that is averaged over a few days. If all they eat is that Layer then it is enough to cause potential damage. If you feed them low calcium treats you reduce the total amount of calcium they eat that day. If they forage for a lot of their food you are probably reducing the total amount of calcium they get in a day significantly. That's why I take the stories about why it never bothered my chickens with two grains of salt and a dash of hot sauce. There could be some very important details missing as to why.

Keep asking questions and observing your chickens. Bad things can happen. Most of the time the panic you feel is overkill so it is a good feeling when you get it resolved but occasionally there are real dangers so ask. And try to feed them things in moderation.

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

The corral colored urates is EXACTLY what I am seeing. Whew! Glad I joined; that's just the thread I need lol Everything I have been seeing is there under normal.

Yay! Glad that was as helpful to you as it was to me.