Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[lalaland]

I just posted on the other thread how sorry I was to hear about Bossy.

I'm on my third week of losing hens and roosters, seems to be a weekly event and I'm not looking forward to this continuing. I know I have one hen showing signs of cocci (the puffed up cold look) so I am dosing the flock with corrid - as cocci showed up on necropsies.

I hate it.

Keep telling myself, it is what it is...and I'm doing my best. poor babies.

 

[Nambroth]

If it is to keep her from shedding virus, I'ld probably cull her. I took an hour off of work this morning to be able to find the danged hen that keeps roosting in pines when I am not there at dusk, and so was able to watch her. She is definitely losing weight, and I thought was pretty disinterested in food. She picked at it, but I think wasn't really eating. When I held her, she was uninterested in feed from my hand, but I didn't have treats. I might try buttermilk (the real stuff) and egg tonight if I decide to try to keep her going.

I could separate her and see if I could encourage her to eat, but she would be away from the flock. I would definitely do that if I thought it would make it possible for her to survive, but not if it means she will just live a little longer while in my house....

She is a ba and has a sister, and the contrast between the two of them is heartbreaking. The nonsymptomatic ba is glossy, fully feathered, bright red comb....and this eye color changing hen is still molting, pale comb, much smaller, slower moving... and talking a lot. was trying to decide if she was in pain or not....

She is not showing any respiratory problems. just the eye, and losing weight, and general failure to thrive at this point.

Mareks is already there, so does it matter if there is more virus shed?

Sorry for my short post earlier, I was on a phone and I hate typing on them! I have been away from home quite a bit and it's hard to find time to sit at the forum on a computer. My apologies.

Anyhow, you are right, the damage is done. Marek's virus is already there. When I said "both" I really meant that removing her would indeed reduce the amount of virus shed directly where the other chickens are. It doesn't really matter for their sake, but just overall if you want to keep the amount of virus down. You can achieve this by doing some cleaning after she either gets better or passes.

I keep chickens as pets, so I always tend to err of the side of caution when it comes to culling and give them a chance unless they seem to be suffering or their quality of life is poor. Sometimes it is not Marek's, and sometimes they do come back. I have a rooster that, almost a year ago now, was totally paralyzed. He's still alive, and walking again (not super well but he is happy). I am not trying to give false hope; usually when they are very poorly they just don't make it. But they do sometimes.

Isolating a bird that otherwise is not doing well gives you a chance to better access what is going on. To look at droppings, to weigh them, to see how much they actually eat and drink. If a bird is otherwise doing well enough to move around, eat and drink normally, I also tend to leave them with the flock as Kathy does, because it's where they are happiest. But if they aren't eating or drinking, or something is off where they are just plain unwell outdoors, I put them in my "ICU" so I can monitor them and make better educated decisions.

 

[lalaland]

Thanks, Nambroth.

I think we are on the same page. I normally separate ill chickens for the reasons you list, but with this mareks, I'm rethinking. If it won't help others survive, then I think I will leave her, provide as much supportive care as I can, and re-evaluate. I don't cull just because someone is sick, but for reasons of quality of life.

However, if I thought it would help others, I would cull earlier. But that doesn't seem to be the case here, so I'll give her as much chance as I can, although it sounds from what I remember reading that eye color changes are associated with poor outcomes.

Normally, I do deep litter and only remove litter once in late fall after molting and again in spring. Right now I am doing some spot removal of feather laden areas, and I put a roosting droppings board up to catch the feather shafts stuff that flakes off the new feathers, and the droppings, and I am removing that weekly just to keep it less airborne. Normally I wouldn't bother with that.

I don't have enough experience with Mareks to predict her survival right now.

 

[Nambroth]

I don't have enough experience with Mareks to predict her survival right now.

Even those of us that do have the worst time predicting survival. I thought my rooster was toast. I took him to the vet to put him down and we decided to let him ride it out with the ladies until he started to suffer. Almost a year ago!

 

[Going Quackers]

I'm sorry Lalaland. I ask the same question about whether I should leave them be or separate them. Unless there's snot running out their nose, I leave them. The damage is already done. I've separated way in the past and found it made no difference. With chicks or adults. But I would separate if I needed to keep an eye on someone and make sure they don't starve, or they need meds. That's IMO. And like my recent sick chicken, she likes solitude, so separating her was okay with her.

Last night my Miss Bossy got some treats and she jumped up on a low roost in the pen and I thought that she looked better. I found her dead this morning. I picked her up and she must have weighed DOUBLE her normal weight. So I imagine it was peritonitis or something I could not have saved her from.

I have Never had so many chickens die in a 6 month period. I would have to think it's not Marek's that killed them, but Marek's induced immune suppression. There are a few of them that were unrelated to it.

I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[seminolewind]

Thanks, Nambroth.

I think we are on the same page. I normally separate ill chickens for the reasons you list, but with this mareks, I'm rethinking. If it won't help others survive, then I think I will leave her, provide as much supportive care as I can, and re-evaluate. I don't cull just because someone is sick, but for reasons of quality of life.

However, if I thought it would help others, I would cull earlier. But that doesn't seem to be the case here, so I'll give her as much chance as I can, although it sounds from what I remember reading that eye color changes are associated with poor outcomes.

Normally, I do deep litter and only remove litter once in late fall after molting and again in spring. Right now I am doing some spot removal of feather laden areas, and I put a roosting droppings board up to catch the feather shafts stuff that flakes off the new feathers, and the droppings, and I am removing that weekly just to keep it less airborne. Normally I wouldn't bother with that.

I don't have enough experience with Mareks to predict her survival right now.

I've only had one who was 8 weeks old and couldn't walk. But she kept her weight and growth. After 6 weeks she started to walk again. I don't know why. She was vaccinated.

I did have luck with the 1 ounce of vodka at making them sleepy before I euthanized. I will use that again. I can't stand the ones that starve to death. They always look hungry to me. And it's hard to narrow down the stressors. It could be anything. I do think this illness mimics HIV/AIDS perfectly. However, I think aids is all about destruction of T-cells or making them mini factories? Doesn't Marek's start with B lymphocytes?

 

[casportpony]

Lost my hen with ocular Marek's and ascites today.

-Kathy

 

[seminolewind]

Lost my hen with ocular Marek's and ascites today.

-Kathy

I am so sorry, Kathy. I think the one I lost today felt more like ascites than EYP.

 

[mightymax]

To the both of you (Kathy and Seminolewind),

I'm very sorry to hear about both of your recent losses !!! I've had a couple this year and Boy, it sure doesn't get any easier. You think it would...but it doesn't. Had to cut
some of Pear-Pear's 'fluff' off of her bottom today. Not because she has loose stool but because of Marek's. She does nothing but sit in one place for a vast majority of the day,
and when I say 'sits', I mean that's all she does until time to roost that evening. She doesn't really even move to do her 'business', choosing instead to do it right where she's sitting. Consequently she ends up with quite a chunk of poo attached to her now also sticky bottom. So today I decided to do us both a favor and I took the scissors and hacked off her butt fluff.
I'm sure she feels more comfortable now, and I'm certain that I feel better for helping her to keep her quality of life for as long as possible.
-kim-

 

[seminolewind]

LOL I am always trimming butt feathers. How sad tho to sit in one place all day but she can make itto the roost ?