Nothing is going right...I feel like they are all gonna die!

[BarnyardChaos]

Really sucks tho, having an otherwise fully capable and seemingly happy hen who will be killed by the same hands she trusts to hold and care for it. Ugh!!

It doesn't ease the heartache, but it does become easier the more you do. I grit my teeth and pray over them every time I slaughter beautiful, healthy cockerels I've hatched and raised for the freezer. Also when I cull the oldest (2-3 year) hens, even when still healthy and occasionally laying, to make room for new vigorous pullets. My goal is lots of eggs and lots of meat, so....

They trust me so much, and that's the hardest part. The boys are still youngsters and see me as their mother. The girls have given me lots and lots of eggs, chicks and entertainment. When it's time to cull, I just talk to them, pet them, and keep them calm up until the final moment, then get it overwith as quickly and as humanely as possible. The heartache eases quickly once the deed is done, though.

My husband helps more than he knows. He doesn't mind the machete method, and quickly dispatches the old hens I hand over to him when I'm thinning the flock. It's easier with a sickly hen, because I justify it to myself as a mercy killing so they won't suffer. I do the cockerels myself at slaughter time with PVC cutters and a killing cone.

It's a daily reminder to myself that they are NOT pets, they are FOOD. And I take pains to make sure I don't get attached (except to my breeding roosters all of whom have names and get petted and talked to every night). I rarely have to cull a rooster, so I channel my maternal instincts and affection onto them while trying to ignore the rest of the flock.

 

[762]

What the issue with "pet" chickens? Aren't they all pets to you?

I don’t have any issue with you thinking of your chickens as pets. That’s not why I got them. My pets live in my house.

How many roosters have you had at one time? Of the 20 Orpingtons I got, 17 were roosters! After awhile 5 became complete jack-asses and were brutal to the smaller roosters and hens, even tho no-one is ready to mate. Good thing I didn’t think of them as “pets”…would have been pretty tough to take my pets, turn them upside down and put them in a killing cone, slit their throat, pull their feathers, gut them and put them in my freezer. That’s certainly never going to happen to my pets!

And what I’m communicating is that in dealing with sick chickens, especially the one I am going to have to put down, is that there is a much stronger connection to them because there has to be. You have to protect them and care for them, sometimes intimately…which builds a great connection once they understand you are helping them. They let their guard down and attach to you. There will be no shortage of tears when I do what I have to with Riley, and probably the only reason I’m typing this is to procrastinate as long as I can.

In order to keep her as a pet, I would have to be OK with whatever pain she is constantly in with her tumor and wry neck, and have to bathe her at least every other day, keep her separated from the flock etc etc. And what about the next chicken that needs special daily care that likely won’t get better? And the next?

 

[BarnyardChaos]

Good thing I didn’t think of them as “pets”…would have been pretty tough to take my pets, turn them upside down and put them in a killing cone, slit their throat, pull their feathers, gut them and put them in my freezer.

... then cook and eat them!

Imagine doing everything you said with a pet dog or cat, or any other "pet" you've grown attached to! It's hard enough to take them to the vet to be euthanized when it's necessary.

We have a philosophy here. Every animal has a purpose on our farm, or it wouldn't live here, indoors or out. There are no free-loaders. The "pets" are the dogs (burglar alarms), and the cats (kill mice). We are boarding one cow who is my son's pet, because she's a midget and can't be near the bull, ever. I suppose her purpose is to keep my son and the grandkids happy, maybe provide manure for the garden LOL.

The non-pets are the other cattle who get eaten, or make babies who grow up and then get eaten, or make milk to drink. Chickens get eaten, or make eggs to get eaten. When we're raising pigs, they are to be eaten. Goats eat weeds and help with snake and tick control. I can't think of a good reason to keep horses (we're in our 60's), so we have none.

I want a donkey, though and am plotting to get a bottle baby here. Its job will be to keep coyotes away from the birthing heifers and their calves. Might be considered a "pet," since I wouldn't plan to eat him. LOL

 

[Acre4Me]

Egyptian Fayoumi are said to be naturally resistant to Mareks. We got some last fall from Meyer. Hopefully you get some answers from the testing.

In the meantime, you could boost their vitamins with a vitamin formula from you local feed store. We buy NutriDrench from TSC. Any sick bird (and all chicks) get a dose or two of this vitamin blend.

 

[Eggcessive]

There is a lot of information in this very long, but accurate article about Mareks:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

@microchick is a good person to contact about Mareks. She has a lot of posts here on BYC if you do a search. There are a lot of threads to search where folks deal with having Mareks in their flocks, and how they deal with it.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

What the issue with "pet" chickens? Aren't they all pets to you?

Sounds like they're going for a self-sustaining flock. Far different than 'pets' most times

 

[microchick]

Thank you @Eggcessive for the tag.

Hi @762, sorry to meet you under such troubling circumstances. You do seem to be having a lot being thrown at you at one time.

Yes I would suspect that you are dealing with Marek's Disease, also. But your chickens are presenting weird like there is something else going on besides MD.

The bird with tumors, yep, been there done that lost a lot of birds to it. But the big question I have to ask is are the birds presenting with what sounds like a respiratory infection due to their lowered immune systems due to the MD or are they suffering from something else not connected with MD.

As for the MD, I know you feel like you are standing in a deep hole right now and somebody is throwing dirt in at you. MD is a thankless, brutal disease that has no compassion for the poultry it infects or the owners who care for the chickens involved.

As far as MD is concerned I have been where you are right now. Many of us have and yes, it's horrible.

We live on a 30 acre hobby farm. We raise grass for hay and chickens for eggs and emergency meat and yes, some of them are pets-the bantams and a few of the laying hens to be precise. I've had to put down many pet birds due to Marek's and yes even after dealing with it for so long it still hurts like hell when I have to put any bird down. Two weeks ago I had to cull a sweet hen who was a pet due to a broken femur that she suffered and that wouldn't heal. I use a .38 revolver to cull and cried while I pulled the trigger. It never stops hurting to have to cull a bird that you cannot help. I have culled roosters and while I hate taking a life, I know they are going to the freezer and their lives and deaths have a purpose. Once they are dispatched they are meat in the freezer case at the grocery store. But still I feel the pang of knowing that I have taken a life.

Just don't ask me to kill one of my sweet little bantams. So I do understand where you are coming from.

I invite you to read my article here on BYC:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

Frankly I will be interested in seeing what the microscopic diagnosis is. Avian Leukosis is a possibility. The question is are you dealing with that, or are you dealing with Marek's? I'll reserve commenting further until you hear from the lab.

In the meantime I am so sorry that you are dealing with this no matter what it is you are dealing with.

Early on in our hobby farming career we were given 4 bred ewes in exchange for letting a neighbor use our pasture for grazing his flock. We asked our vet at the time who raised sheep and showed them if he could give us any advice and he laughed and said, yes, dig a hole because sheep love to die.

Well I learned fast that chickens like to die faster than sheep do. Don't get me wrong, when everything goes right, yes, you can lose a bird from time to time but that's it, but when it goes wrong, it goes very wrong and all you can do is try to figure things out and in the mean time hang on for dear life.

It is nothing you have done wrong. You have just been handed a rough hand of cards to deal with. Not knowing is hard. Knowing you will be able to make a plan for the future.

You are not alone.

 

[762]

Thank you @Eggcessive for the tag.

Hi @762, sorry to meet you under such troubling circumstances. You do seem to be having a lot being thrown at you at one time.

Yes I would suspect that you are dealing with Marek's Disease, also. But your chickens are presenting weird like there is something else going on besides MD.

The bird with tumors, yep, been there done that lost a lot of birds to it. But the big question I have to ask is are the birds presenting with what sounds like a respiratory infection due to their lowered immune systems due to the MD or are they suffering from something else not connected with MD.

As for the MD, I know you feel like you are standing in a deep hole right now and somebody is throwing dirt in at you. MD is a thankless, brutal disease that has no compassion for the poultry it infects or the owners who care for the chickens involved.

As far as MD is concerned I have been where you are right now. Many of us have and yes, it's horrible.

We live on a 30 acre hobby farm. We raise grass for hay and chickens for eggs and emergency meat and yes, some of them are pets-the bantams and a few of the laying hens to be precise. I've had to put down many pet birds due to Marek's and yes even after dealing with it for so long it still hurts like hell when I have to put any bird down. Two weeks ago I had to cull a sweet hen who was a pet due to a broken femur that she suffered and that wouldn't heal. I use a .38 revolver to cull and cried while I pulled the trigger. It never stops hurting to have to cull a bird that you cannot help. I have culled roosters and while I hate taking a life, I know they are going to the freezer and their lives and deaths have a purpose. Once they are dispatched they are meat in the freezer case at the grocery store. But still I feel the pang of knowing that I have taken a life.

Just don't ask me to kill one of my sweet little bantams. So I do understand where you are coming from.

I invite you to read my article here on BYC:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

Frankly I will be interested in seeing what the microscopic diagnosis is. Avian Leukosis is a possibility. The question is are you dealing with that, or are you dealing with Marek's? I'll reserve commenting further until you hear from the lab.

In the meantime I am so sorry that you are dealing with this no matter what it is you are dealing with.

Early on in our hobby farming career we were given 4 bred ewes in exchange for letting a neighbor use our pasture for grazing his flock. We asked our vet at the time who raised sheep and showed them if he could give us any advice and he laughed and said, yes, dig a hole because sheep love to die.

Well I learned fast that chickens like to die faster than sheep do. Don't get me wrong, when everything goes right, yes, you can lose a bird from time to time but that's it, but when it goes wrong, it goes very wrong and all you can do is try to figure things out and in the mean time hang on for dear life.

It is nothing you have done wrong. You have just been handed a rough hand of cards to deal with. Not knowing is hard. Knowing you will be able to make a plan for the future.

You are not alone.

Thank you so much for your heartfelt response. I put the tumored one down today and shipped her off for a necropsy. The other chicken I put down I did with a shotgun so it would have no idea (and then I understood the meaning of chicken with head cut off...it was crazy!!), but for this one I wanted the brain to be intact so I, with extreme displeasure, did the cervical dislocation method. I was so worried that she would feel it due to lack of proper execution on my part, but I was able to do it correctly and I really do believe she had no idea. And there was no flapping about or gore because I held her tightly to my body until her nerves stopped.

Anyway, I will be reading your article this evening and thinking through all of this. And yes, the hardest part is not knowing what the heck is going on. I keep asking what I've done wrong. The Orpington breeder I used is a champion breeder, keeps her flocks closed and does not allow farm visitation to prevent spreading of disease. I contacted the Wyandotte breeder (who was introduced to me BY the Orpington breeder) and she said she has not had Marek's in her flock or avian leukosis to her knowledge. She said she has had 3 mysterious deaths over the years and all sent for necropsy, all negative for infectious diseases.

I hope the lab is able to tell me a definitive yes or no on the Marek's!

 

[Kiki]

Got 29 chicks from local reputable breeders back in mid Sept...9 Wyandottes and 20 Lav Orpingtons. I cannot say that finding my chickens locally has made any difference...I have lost 4, going to euthanize one tomorrow (more details later) and now have several with slight wheezes and sneezing (no discharge, nothing serious sounding yet, nor odd behavior). I'll list the symptoms and approx timeline of deaths.

1) Nov 5 - Orpington died we believe had something stuck in crop. Didn't think much about it but now think could be related if it had tumors internally.
2) Dec 11 - Wyandotte did not come out of coop, had very puffy face, died.
3) Jan 1 - Orpington last out of coop, seemed to be shaking a bit...ran towards flock and was attacked, ran away and fell over. Isolated one day, next day barely could stand, euthanized
4) Jan 15 - Orpington had caked yellow diarrhea on butt, bathed and isolated. Noticed both normal poop and diarrhea during isolation. Suspected worms gave Valbazen. Seemed to be eating drinking fine next day in isolation. Later afternoon, dead. Necropsy ordered. Results just received will provide details later in post.

CURRENT SITUATION - Have a SWEET Wyandotte hen I am going to have to put down. She has a wry tail and noticed poopy butt on 1/19. Bathed her then and found a LARGE lump near her vent. Thought she was egg bound but no, it is a tumor. Since she was still eating and drinking and seemed happy, we have let her live to see what happens with the tumor. In the last week she has also developed wry neck. Eyes are clear, great appetite, poops fine, walks as well as expected with egg-sized tumor, and is super happy when she interacts with us. I do NOT want to put her down, but am going to do so and send her to get a necropsy for the sake of the flock...which I almost feel is MOOT at this point!

In addition, I have another Wyandotte who has always had a whitish head as compared to the others. SHE has started to develop a wry tail in the past week or two. It is not severe, but it is there. Her comb is definitely much paler than the rest of her sisters (none are very red yet), and I would say she is definitely at the bottom of the pecking order. And yet, another (3rd) Wyandotte hen where I am seeing a VERY SLIGHT wry tail (all else normal).

TODAY - I am now noticing at least a few chickens with a SLIGHT wheeze...kind-of a whistle sound, and occasional sneezes. I fear this is the beginning of the end!

Side note: 5 class-A-hole Orpington roosters slaughtered and added to freezer last weekend (earlier than planned), flock down to 20...did not notice ANYTHING odd with the internal organs.

Necropsy Results: Based on the chicken’s age and masses affecting multiple tissues, I suspect lymphoma in this case but microscopic evaluation is needed to rule out other possible causes. Lymphoma is most commonly caused by Marek’s disease and avian leukosis. Microscopic evaluation is pending but may take up to 3 weeks to complete. The 18-week-old, male chicken submitted on 1/20/23 is thin with moderately prominent keel bone. There are variably sized white masses within the lung, liver, mesentery, proventriculus, intestines and adjacent to the heart and kidneys. There is also a 3-cm, firm mass in the bursal region. On cut surface the mass is grayish with areas of yellow necrotic-like tissue. There are no other gross abnormalities observed.

So, I do not know if this is telling me the microscopic eval is going to confirm whether or not it is lymphoma or tell what WHAT caused lymphoma (the vet is out sick, and either way that's 3 weeks away!). IF my tumored hen has the same thing, it's certainly presenting differently than Marek's. I'm wondering if avian leukosis is more likely. Different breeds different breeders but if the Orpingtons were born with leukosis, from what I've read, they could have passed it to the Wyandottes.

I just don't know what to do. If it is Marek's and I clean out all 330 lbs of bedding and disinfect everything, there could still be carriers or infected that could still pass it.

Could the sneezing and wheezing be related to what's been happening with these other chickens? Are the deaths even related? Are the wry tails genetic or a symptom.

And our good friend said chickens are easy...I've been up to my ears in chicken stuff since we started! I don't mind hard work, but I'm feeling very defeated here. Building a sustainable flock seems impossible!

I am considering slaughtering all 9 of the roosters we were not planning on keeping ASAP instead of waiting until 2/12.

Your reputable breeder should stop selling birds immediately.
I am sorry this happened to you. It happens to a lot of people.

Do you have a link to thier website?


There is no getting rid of either diesae out of your flock so what ever you do close your flock for good.
Do not rehome or give away any birds.

 

[Kiki]

Thank you so much for your heartfelt response. I put the tumored one down today and shipped her off for a necropsy. The other chicken I put down I did with a shotgun so it would have no idea (and then I understood the meaning of chicken with head cut off...it was crazy!!), but for this one I wanted the brain to be intact so I, with extreme displeasure, did the cervical dislocation method. I was so worried that she would feel it due to lack of proper execution on my part, but I was able to do it correctly and I really do believe she had no idea. And there was no flapping about or gore because I held her tightly to my body until her nerves stopped.

Anyway, I will be reading your article this evening and thinking through all of this. And yes, the hardest part is not knowing what the heck is going on. I keep asking what I've done wrong. The Orpington breeder I used is a champion breeder, keeps her flocks closed and does not allow farm visitation to prevent spreading of disease. I contacted the Wyandotte breeder (who was introduced to me BY the Orpington breeder) and she said she has not had Marek's in her flock or avian leukosis to her knowledge. She said she has had 3 mysterious deaths over the years and all sent for necropsy, all negative for infectious diseases.

I hope the lab is able to tell me a definitive yes or no on the Marek's!

The lab will be able to give you an answer. Good luck.
And again I am sorry this happened to you.