Old Fashioned Broody Hen Hatch A Long and Informational Thread

[Lady of McCamley]

Because blue is a dominant gene, only one copy is necessary for blue eggs, so the original breeding chicken could have Oo or OO blue genes if they lay blue eggs. The only way to tell if they are Oo or OO is to test breed....breed to a white egg layer. If all of the resulting pullets lay blue (or green if you have the brown covering gene) then the first was OO, if half lay white (or brown) and half lay blue (or green), then the original was an Oo. Hope that makes sense. You can do the same test breeding for any of the traits that you are trying to either enhance or eliminate, provided that the gene is dominant (only requires one copy) and not recessive (needs two copies to exhibit). Some of the genes that are dominant - pea and rose combs, five toes, feather footed, blue eggs, blue feather color (interesting things happen with two copies of the blue feather gene). There are a whole host of others, if you look on the chicken calculator there is a section that talks about dominant genes vs. recessive genes for chickens.

I usually don't breed the results of test breedings, the genes are mixed up and it would require extensive work to get rid of the wrong genes. So, they are usually the ones that I sell or cull as soon as I know the results of the test.

Just some thoughts

Yes, Yes, Yes....

Thank you Master-san..Okay... "I think I've got it" : said in my best proper English Eliza accent: ...at least with the basics of egg color and the simpler dominant traits..What you said was exactly where I was going...thank you for clarifying.

I *think* I am beginning to understand this, with the simpler genetics.

Curious....so if it may take 13 plus genes for brown tint on the egg...do ALL of those genes have to be present to be brown, or half of them and you get light tan? Do those genes act like "one" chain group? Or subdivide out to produce different traits...ie is it ALL or NOTHING to get brown? (I suspicion it is part of the genes to get lighter tint since a dark layer bred to a lighter layer will give you something in between...if I read that right in the documents).

And that article, with attached genetic chart, helped me understand the basic idea of comb dominance, feathered feet, blue coloring...but then I totally lost it on the patterns, red based...red inhibitor...which kind of white dominance...blah blah blah :eyes crossed:

The rest is still rain on that plain somewhere.

Lady of McCamley

 

[bumpercarr]

Yes, Yes, Yes....

Thank you Master-san..Okay... "I think I've got it" : said in my best proper English Eliza accent: ...at least with the basics of egg color and the simpler dominant traits..What you said was exactly where I was going...thank you for clarifying.

I *think* I am beginning to understand this, with the simpler genetics.

Curious....so if it may take 13 plus genes for brown tint on the egg...do ALL of those genes have to be present to be brown, or half of them and you get light tan? Do those genes act like "one" chain group? Or subdivide out to produce different traits...ie is it ALL or NOTHING to get brown? (I suspicion it is part of the genes to get lighter tint since a dark layer bred to a lighter layer will give you something in between...if I read that right in the documents).

And that article, with attached genetic chart, helped me understand the basic idea of comb dominance, feathered feet, blue coloring...but then I totally lost it on the patterns, red based...red inhibitor...which kind of white dominance...blah blah blah :eyes crossed:

The rest is still rain on that plain somewhere.

Lady of McCamley

By George, I think she's got it! (with my best Rex Harrison imitation, just because you took Eliza)

I don't know the answer to your brown tint question....but this is what I do know, it is very complex and no one is quite sure what genes and where they are located (the locus). Does the location change the shade of brown along with all of the questions that you asked are still unanswered. I suppose if you want really brown or light tan eggs the best plan is to breed cock birds and hens that come from the color egg that you are striving to achieve. Not much of an answer I know, but I'm afraid that there really aren't any answers out there to that one.

 

[K Epp]

My LF flock is a mix of laying hens Orp, Wyandotte, Australorp, and EE. My roos are Ameracauna project rejects because of feather color. I let them brood when ever they feel like it and have hatched out a bunch if chicks. Out of the ones I've chose to keep based on feather color they are laying green/blue eggs. I did buy a sexed pullet EE and it turned into a roo do I'm keeping it for back up when the old guys retire. If you do like me and only keep the pullets and breed back to your legbar you should keep getting colored egg layers.

Now I have EE who go broody because they most likely came from a Australorp or Orp hen.

 

[vpatt]

Three of the four eggs hatched. So far two of the three chicks have survived. I found one dead yesterday. The hen was up getting food and I thought it was poop at first and then realized it was one of the babies. It had an opening on its stomach. Is that from the umbilical cord?

 

[losttexan]

Can't be sure without pictures, but sounds like a probable unabsorbed yolk/unhealed navel.

 

[vpatt]

Can't be sure without pictures, but sounds like a probable unabsorbed yolk/unhealed navel.

I guess I just wonder if there was anything to be done to save it. Are the chicks attached to the yolk/shell? I need to look for pictures so I understand the hatching processing better. But without disturbing the nest I'm not sure how much could be done.

 

[Faraday40]

Can't be sure without pictures, but sounds like a probable unabsorbed yolk/unhealed navel.

Most times the navel simply heals up on its own & a little scab falls off. I had a chick with a herniated navel once. She needed to be separated and kept very clean to prevent infection. I was surprised it lived.







Here she is today:

 

[vpatt]

I didn't see anything wrong right after hatch...but then I only barely saw the three chicks. There was a bit of 'stuff' in one of the shells.

 

[vpatt]

Most times the navel simply heals up on its own & a little scab falls off. I had a chick with a herniated navel once. She needed to be separated and kept very clean to prevent infection. I was surprised it lived. [COLOR=B42000] [/COLOR] [COLOR=B42000] [/COLOR] [COLOR=B42000] [/COLOR] Here she is today:

Was she hatched by a hen? Looks like you did a great job!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I guess I just wonder if there was anything to be done to save it. Are the chicks attached to the yolk/shell? I need to look for pictures so I understand the hatching processing better. But without disturbing the nest I'm not sure how much could be done.

Most likely there was nothing that could be done. If the naval/abdomen was red and extended, that indicated infection had begun already, possibly in the shell before hatch, and the chick died shortly after hatch.

This infection of the abdomen/naval site is called omphalitis and is a number one reason for chick loss during the hatching process or death shortly after hatching because the site is perfect for invading bacteria. The remaining yolk is rich in food, the abdominal cavity dark and warm, and the naval site if unclosed an inviting doorway.The commercial industry has to battle with it by keeping their hatching trays and hatchers immaculately clean to prevent bacteria in the environment from infecting the chicks during hatching.

Brooding in a dirty coop is hardly sterile, so this can occur; however, nature usually keeps things under control as the naval should seal within the shell during hatching. Chicks who partially hatch and linger a bit long in the half in/half out stage and still have an open naval are prime.

Yes, the chick is attached to the egg by umbilical cord...the egg yolk more precisely. As the chick develops, those last few days, it begins to draw the remaining yolk sac into its abdomen. The hatch process helps with this process. It is that remaining yolk sac that gives the chicks its food for the first 1 or 2 days after hatching...the reason baby chicks don't need food/water for 1 to 2 days.

I have lost 1 chick to omphalitis...arrived the next morning to see momma had pulled a fully hatched chick aside, dead, with grossly swollen abdomen.

I helped one chick with an open red (but not grossly swollen) naval survive after an assisted hatch by dousing the site with Chlorhexiderm, then drying it carefully, applying antibiotic ointment daily for several days and keeping the chick on antibiotic (in its water) for 2 weeks. Another BYC member who is a wild life animal specialist does necropsies on chicks that don't survive the shipping process, and every one of them showed overgrowth of bacteria...so on her advice I kept the chick on antibiotics for a full 2 weeks. That chick is now a lovely Buckeye hen. You can see her story in my Buckeye hatch below.

All to say...while sad...there was nothing you could do. The hatch process was not perfect as the naval should have been closed before hatch to prevent infection. We can sometimes intervene afterwards if we catch it in time and the infection has not gone too far.

Here is a good video on the developing and hatching process.

Lady of McCamley