Old Fashioned Broody Hen Hatch A Long and Informational Thread

[vpatt]

Most likely there was nothing that could be done. If the naval/abdomen was red and extended, that indicated infection had begun already, possibly in the shell before hatch, and the chick died shortly after hatch.

This infection of the abdomen/naval site is called omphalitis and is a number one reason for chick loss during the hatching process or death shortly after hatching because the site is perfect for invading bacteria. The remaining yolk is rich in food, the abdominal cavity dark and warm, and the naval site if unclosed an inviting doorway.The commercial industry has to battle with it by keeping their hatching trays and hatchers immaculately clean to prevent bacteria in the environment from infecting the chicks during hatching.

Brooding in a dirty coop is hardly sterile, so this can occur; however, nature usually keeps things under control as the naval should seal within the shell during hatching. Chicks who partially hatch and linger a bit long in the half in/half out stage and still have an open naval are prime.

Yes, the chick is attached to the egg by umbilical cord...the egg yolk more precisely. As the chick develops, those last few days, it begins to draw the remaining yolk sac into its abdomen. The hatch process helps with this process. It is that remaining yolk sac that gives the chicks its food for the first 1 or 2 days after hatching...the reason baby chicks don't need food/water for 1 to 2 days.

I have lost 1 chick to omphalitis...arrived the next morning to see momma had pulled a fully hatched chick aside, dead, with grossly swollen abdomen.

I helped one chick with an open red (but not grossly swollen) naval survive after an assisted hatch by dousing the site with Chlorhexiderm, then drying it carefully, applying antibiotic ointment daily for several days and keeping the chick on antibiotic (in its water) for 2 weeks. Another BYC member who is a wild life animal specialist does necropsies on chicks that don't survive the shipping process, and every one of them showed overgrowth of bacteria...so on her advice I kept the chick on antibiotics for a full 2 weeks. That chick is now a lovely Buckeye hen. You can see her story in my Buckeye hatch below.

All to say...while sad...there was nothing you could do. The hatch process was not perfect as the naval should have been closed before hatch to prevent infection. We can sometimes intervene afterwards if we catch it in time and the infection has not gone too far.

Here is a good video on the developing and hatching process.

Lady of McCamley

I loved the video!

I didn't think I had done anything to cause it (but wasn't sure) and just wondered if I could have helped it. I know I will lose some of the girls and i am not too upset ......not happy tho as I'm sure everyone here understands. I may complain about not getting as many eggs as I would like but they are more than just egg production to all of us I know.

Had some drama in the chicken yard. I realize that my set up with thebroody and babies is not the best. Yesterday after the red hen went in and laid her egg (in the box with mama and babies) I shut the box up so babies could not come out and no one else could go in. The box is 47"X47". Mama does not pay attention to Sassy laying her egg each morning. No other hens lay in there so the plan was to let Sassy lay her egg then shut the nest box up. This morning one of my other pullets went in there and stayed for an hour. I know she is ready to begin laying soon. So I waited on her. I went back to check and she was out of the nest (no egg) and so was mama and babies! She had them under the porch. They looked fine....no distress so I went tomove there feed and water to them. Just after that Joe the 7 month old rooster came by and began eating their food. Well...mama began going at him and he went back at her and the chicks were in the middle! I was able to grab them and put them back in the nest where mama joined them. If I hadn't put feed down I don't think there would have been an issue. But I about had a heart attack. I will just have to keep them shut in for a while I guess. I don't think Joe would have tried to hurt the chicks....he had the chance.....I think it was all between him and the hen. No trouble with other girls in the nest box.

Yes you really did work for those Buckeyes!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I loved the video!

I didn't think I had done anything to cause it (but wasn't sure) and just wondered if I could have helped it. I know I will lose some of the girls and i am not too upset ......not happy tho as I'm sure everyone here understands. I may complain about not getting as many eggs as I would like but they are more than just egg production to all of us I know.

Had some drama in the chicken yard. I realize that my set up with thebroody and babies is not the best. Yesterday after the red hen went in and laid her egg (in the box with mama and babies) I shut the box up so babies could not come out and no one else could go in. The box is 47"X47". Mama does not pay attention to Sassy laying her egg each morning. No other hens lay in there so the plan was to let Sassy lay her egg then shut the nest box up. This morning one of my other pullets went in there and stayed for an hour. I know she is ready to begin laying soon. So I waited on her. I went back to check and she was out of the nest (no egg) and so was mama and babies! She had them under the porch. They looked fine....no distress so I went tomove there feed and water to them. Just after that Joe the 7 month old rooster came by and began eating their food. Well...mama began going at him and he went back at her and the chicks were in the middle! I was able to grab them and put them back in the nest where mama joined them. If I hadn't put feed down I don't think there would have been an issue. But I about had a heart attack. I will just have to keep them shut in for a while I guess. I don't think Joe would have tried to hurt the chicks....he had the chance.....I think it was all between him and the hen. No trouble with other girls in the nest box.

Yes you really did work for those Buckeyes!

Yes...that is the trouble with communal brooding...while the other chickens generally leave the chicks alone, the fights between momma and them can trample chicks by accident.

Glad you worked it out...and enjoyed the video....and are enjoying your chickens for the fun they are (which also give eggs)
Lady of McCamley

 

[Faraday40]

Was she hatched by a hen? Looks like you did a great job!

She was from an incubator (shipped eggs), so I noticed the issue right away. I didn't want to cull her if there was a chance, but I didn't want to spend a lot of time on a weak chick. All I did was keep the area clean & apply triple antibiotic ointment. I expected her to die within the week..... but she lived. Her name is Hope. We "Hope"d she'd live.

This year, we're wishing for a broody volunteer, so I'm doing my best to learn what I can now.

 

[Faraday40]

Most likely there was nothing that could be done. If the naval/abdomen was red and extended, that indicated infection had begun already, possibly in the shell before hatch, and the chick died shortly after hatch.

This infection of the abdomen/naval site is called omphalitis and is a number one reason for chick loss during the hatching process or death shortly after hatching because the site is perfect for invading bacteria. The remaining yolk is rich in food, the abdominal cavity dark and warm, and the naval site if unclosed an inviting doorway.The commercial industry has to battle with it by keeping their hatching trays and hatchers immaculately clean to prevent bacteria in the environment from infecting the chicks during hatching.

Brooding in a dirty coop is hardly sterile, so this can occur; however, nature usually keeps things under control as the naval should seal within the shell during hatching. Chicks who partially hatch and linger a bit long in the half in/half out stage and still have an open naval are prime.

Yes, the chick is attached to the egg by umbilical cord...the egg yolk more precisely. As the chick develops, those last few days, it begins to draw the remaining yolk sac into its abdomen. The hatch process helps with this process. It is that remaining yolk sac that gives the chicks its food for the first 1 or 2 days after hatching...the reason baby chicks don't need food/water for 1 to 2 days.

I have lost 1 chick to omphalitis...arrived the next morning to see momma had pulled a fully hatched chick aside, dead, with grossly swollen abdomen.

I helped one chick with an open red (but not grossly swollen) naval survive after an assisted hatch by dousing the site with Chlorhexiderm, then drying it carefully, applying antibiotic ointment daily for several days and keeping the chick on antibiotic (in its water) for 2 weeks. Another BYC member who is a wild life animal specialist does necropsies on chicks that don't survive the shipping process, and every one of them showed overgrowth of bacteria...so on her advice I kept the chick on antibiotics for a full 2 weeks. That chick is now a lovely Buckeye hen. You can see her story in my Buckeye hatch below.

All to say...while sad...there was nothing you could do. The hatch process was not perfect as the naval should have been closed before hatch to prevent infection. We can sometimes intervene afterwards if we catch it in time and the infection has not gone too far.

Here is a good video on the developing and hatching process.

Lady of McCamley

Well said!

Great video. I use it in my science classes - detailed & short!

 

[vpatt]

Yes...that is the trouble with communal brooding...while the other chickens generally leave the chicks alone, the fights between momma and them can trample chicks by accident.

Glad you worked it out...and enjoyed the video....and are enjoying your chickens for the fun they are (which also give eggs)
Lady of McCamley

I really do enjoy them. I am trying to learn and do the best I can for them. But they really help take my mind off worries that I cannot change.

Cecily finally settled on a place to lay her first egg today. She went back in the coop and laid it in the top bunk that none of the others use. It will be really nice if she continues to use that nest. We'll see. I got five eggs today, my highest count so far!

I was thinking that in the morning after I open the communal nest for Sassy and she has laid her egg then I will see if I can put a piece of fence around the nest. That way mama can take them out ....supposed to be even warmer tomorrow....and they will be apart from the others. I just didn't think I needed it. I am learning.
Thanks for the help.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Well said!

Great video. I use it in my science classes - detailed & short!

I love that video too...I use in in my tutoring sessions when we do the egg unit and hatching unit (when I've got a broody volunteer...my students get to learn by watching nature at work)
Lady of McCamley

 

[Faraday40]

I love that video too...I use in in my tutoring sessions when we do the egg unit and hatching unit (when I've got a broody volunteer...my students get to learn by watching nature at work)
Lady of McCamley

Wow that sounds amazing. Do you set up a broody in the classroom?

I'd been incubating White Leghorn eggs for years. (Easy to get, easy to candle, easy to give away, etc.) Those skittish, little dust-generators were very cute, but I was ready to get them out of my classroom after 2-3 weeks. It wasn't until someone donated some rainbow eggs that I first considered keeping the hatch results. Then, I spread my chicken addiction to my daughter. She's now in 4H & on her way to surpassing me. Our accidental broody hatch was so much fun last summer, that she's making a project out of it this year.

One question we have is how much handling does the mama hen allow? Our broody last year never pecked at us, but the chicks ran away instead of toward our hands. When we held them, they peeped for mama instead of a quiet snuggle. We didn't want to stress them out, so we didn't hold the chicks often. (We also didn't keep them, so I'm not sure if they would eventually become tame.) Do broody-raised chicks eventually tame?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Wow that sounds amazing.  Do you set up a broody in the classroom?  

I'd been incubating White Leghorn eggs for years. (Easy to get, easy to candle, easy to give away, etc.)  Those skittish, little dust-generators were very cute, but I was ready to get them out of my classroom after 2-3 weeks.  It wasn't until someone donated some rainbow eggs that I first considered keeping the hatch results.  Then, I spread my chicken addiction to my daughter.  She's now in 4H & on her way to surpassing me.  Our accidental broody hatch was so much fun last summer, that she's making a project out of it this year.

One question we have is how much handling does the mama hen allow?  Our broody last year never pecked at us, but the chicks ran away instead of toward our hands.  When we held them, they peeped for mama instead of a quiet snuggle.  We didn't want to stress them out, so we didn't hold the chicks often.  (We also didn't keep them, so I'm not sure if they would eventually become tame.)  Do broody-raised chicks eventually tame? 

I after school tutor private ESL and phonics/reading/thematic units from my home so I merely take the kids to the coop to look. I keep kiddie size rubber boots by my work boots so we tromp out to the coop together, and my broody hutch is waist high with peep holes for the kids.

We first do the 4H Incredibile Egg unit, candling a store egg and inspecting it after cracking noting the anatomy and purpose of each structure...then we tromp out to observe the hen. I then grab an egg and candle to show progress. After hatching, the kids can watch the hen and chicks through the wire panel doors for the first couple of weeks. I limit handling so as not to stress the chicks, but we do gently handle one of the chicks for a minute or so for a first time, after that I do not let the kids handle them as too much handling is not good for the young chicks.

Broody hatched chicks are less tame and I do not want to interfere with their bonding with mom as that keeps them safe. I also do not want to overstress mom (which can bring unwanted even disastrous results) so we observe more than handle. I am of the camp that this teaches kids to respect animals in their element and to think of the animals' welfare first...but I am not intending in any way to preach at those who like to interact with their animals more.

Since the chicks are not held a lot, I always bring treats to hand feed the broody and chicks without holding the birds but letting them run in and out of my flat palm with food, which I allow a child to do if I have a child with me. The children learn the animals are living creatures of nature with needs. We discuss those needs and the natural care of the hen. We watch the hen call and feed her chicks from the pile of scratch.

While the chicks are not cuddle pets, they quickly become calm around me and any visitor and will run to the wire gate when they see us.

If you keep the treat and greet routine, they stay friendly. I make a point to "chook" at them and talk to them so that most of them come on voice command. To help ease of handling any after they become pullets, I condition them to do so at roost time with a treat and greet and progressive petting with voice cues.

If I remain consistent (which sadly I don't always have time to do), the bird will become quite handable, but at the least all my birds run to me on sight and voice call and do not fight frantically if I have to pick them off a perch at night to tend to in some way.

Anyway that's how I do it. Some of this obviously doesn't transcribe to a classroom situation (which is why I love private tutoring) but some of the techniques should apply.

HTH
Lady of McCamley

 

[ochochicas]

Quote:
Broody hatched chicks can be just as friendly as incubator babies. However, you do have to dedicate a small amount of time each day to go out and handle them. My broody allows me to handle the chicks and take them in the house to be weighed. My tamest pullets and most mellow rooster were all raised by her last year. She currently has 7 chicks that I have not handled as much as I would have liked. They are still reasonably tame though. I can pick them up with out much fuss and they will perch on my arm while I pack them around the yard. I think they key is that you need to be present with them from the beginning. Start handling them on day one and be in/near the brooder talking to them. You can also talk to the eggs before they hatch so they will be used to your voice.

 

[Faraday40]

Broody hatched chicks can be just as friendly as incubator babies. However, you do have to dedicate a small amount of time each day to go out and handle them. My broody allows me to handle the chicks and take them in the house to be weighed. My tamest pullets and most mellow rooster were all raised by her last year. She currently has 7 chicks that I have not handled as much as I would have liked. They are still reasonably tame though. I can pick them up with out much fuss and they will perch on my arm while I pack them around the yard. I think they key is that you need to be present with them from the beginning. Start handling them on day one and be in/near the brooder talking to them. You can also talk to the eggs before they hatch so they will be used to your voice.

That's what I was wondering. My broody allowed us to pick up the chicks, but the chicks didn't want to be picked up. (They ran away from our hands, so we just left them alone.) The brooder raised chicks always imprinted on us, so as soon as a hand dropped into the brooder, the chicks would fight over who gets there 1st.