Organic Chicken/Eggs

[Mac in Wisco]

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There are many opinions about what is truly sustainable.

Yes, it's all about marketing.

There are consumers who are saying that they want good, wholesome foods that reduce their family's exposure to synthetic herbicides, pesticides, medications, hormones, and antibiotics.

They are asking for products from more traditional, smaller family farms vs corporately owned agriculture.

They are asking that the animals be taken out of the cages, that the animals be raised in settings that allow them to express their natural behaviors.

They are asking for products raised in a way that reduces harmful impacts on the environment and employs the best conservation efforts.

I'm the guy that steps up and says, "I have exactly what you are looking for. These meet all of the standards you are looking for. If you have any questions about my production practices please feel free to call me, or you can contact the third-party organic certifying agency whose name and phone number are on every carton. That will be $4 a dozen please."

It's not necessarily about the end product. Are organic eggs more nutritious or healthful than conventional eggs? Possibly, possibly not. It's more about the production methods used.

 

[Tracydr]

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Is that because you think it's impossible to raise chickens without medications or because the regulations are too strict?
If you have a completely organic farm, don't use outside bedding ( use pine straw or leaves for example) and either buy organic feed or buy organic grains and mix your own, it's doable. Not easy, but doable. Easier on a larger property with free ranged chickens and more room to raise your own feedstuffs.
As far as medicated feeds, I've had chickens and other poultry for 25 years. I've never used medicated feed. I don't believe I've ever had problems with cocci and I've lived in several areas of the country. Raising chicks to have a strong immune system has a lot to do with feeding and management. I firmly believe that getting them on real ground and feeding real, whole foods ( what most BYCers call treats, my chickens live on) has a lot to do with thriving chickens. Most of my losses over the years have been predator related. They haven't been that many, considering I free range. I did lose a few show chickens that I purchased from a breeder as adults. They had been raised on wire with medicated feeds.
Anyway, I'm certainly not an expert. But, I do believe that it's possible to raise chickens naturally, just as our grandparents and great grandparents did. Maybe not some of the less hardy, high production and foo-foo breeds. They seem to be more prone to illness, parasites and egg-laying issues.

 

[Phenomenon]

For a novice, what's a foo-foo breed?

 

[acy0029]

But, I do believe that it's possible to raise chickens naturally, just as our grandparents and great grandparents did. Maybe not some of the less hardy, high production and foo-foo breeds. They seem to be more prone to illness, parasites and egg-laying issues.

Actually, this is my point the terminology and use of the word "organic" is a misnomer. "Naturally Raised" is a much better term. When part of the certification process states that your animals must free range this inherently leaves them to become non-"organic" you have no idea what is in the rain or what just blew in on that last storm or what pesticide ridden plant that bug that just flew 10 miles to get to your "organic field" has been eating. The term "organic" needs to be removed from all products,after all anything that rots or decays is in fact organic regardless of how it was grown or how many chemical are used to grow it.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

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Is that because you think it's impossible to raise chickens without medications or because the regulations are too strict?

The standard argument is that you can't avoid environmental pollutants. There are cars driving by polluting the air, pollutants in the rain, pollutants in the water. If you use your diesel powered combine to harvest your organic corn, don't the exhaust particulates pollute the corn?

People will pick all kinds of holes in it, but I believe it is a good marketing program.

Is it a marketing program? Yes.

If you went to the grocery store and all eggs were in generic cartons marked "Eggs, $1". Wouldn't you want to know further? In the past the typical question would be "What size eggs?", "Are they fresh?", "What color are they?" Marketeers define these things to define the product, set their products apart from others, and give the customer what they are asking for.

More recently the questions would be, "Are the hens kept in cages?", "Are the chickens given hormones and antibiotics?", "What are they fed?", etc.

The National Organic Program sets a minimum standard to allow consumers to easily identify the products that are produced under the general guidelines that I mentioned.

 

[acy0029]

Quote:
Is that because you think it's impossible to raise chickens without medications or because the regulations are too strict?

The standard argument is that you can't avoid environmental pollutants. There are cars driving by polluting the air, pollutants in the rain, pollutants in the water. If you use your diesel powered combine to harvest your organic corn, don't the exhaust particulates pollute the corn?

People will pick all kinds of holes in it, but I believe it is a good marketing program.

Is it a marketing program? Yes.

If you went to the grocery store and all eggs were in generic cartons marked "Eggs, $1". Wouldn't you want to know further? In the past the typical question would be "What size eggs?", "Are they fresh?", "What color are they?" Marketeers define these things to define the product, set their products apart from others, and give the customer what they are asking for.

More recently the questions would be, "Are the hens kept in cages?", "Are the chickens given hormones and antibiotics?", "What are they fed?", etc.

The National Organic Program sets a minimum standard to allow consumers to easily identify the products that are produced under the general guidelines that I mentioned.

My point is that the vast majority of people think they are getting a purely "organic" product and that is just not possible.

 

[GardeNerd]

A large number of us organic consumers are looking for natural wholesome food when we spend our extra food dollars on organic labels. Large scale Industrial farming has gotten away from natural practices in many respects. Basically, if an egg seller or other booth at farmers market explains their methods like "grown without the use of chemical fertilizers or pesticides" or " pastured raised and fed organic layer feed," many consumers won't mind if chicks started out on medicated feed or not.

For consumers like me, organic isn't about expecting something to be pure. Yes, I am an organic wacko. I won't buy something labeled organic at a place like Walmart or manufactured by one of the huge corporations that supply to them. Supporting big industrial farming, organic or not, defeats the reasons I buy organic.

There was a time, not so long ago, before big government got involved with term organic, that the word organic meant: non-industrial food production that mimicked (as best as possible) the natural world without the use of chemicals and avoiding mono-cultures. This is similar to the way our great grandparents (depending on your age) did things before the widespread use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides.

Opps, I'm sorry, I need to get off my soap box.

AndiceChickens, I would buy your eggs if you sold them at the local farmer's market.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

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I'd have to argue the point that a vast majority think that. Most consumers can easily come to the same conclusions that you have, that there will always be environmental pollutants.

If they do think that these are products are absolutely pure, then it is their mistake. Nobody markets organic products to that standard. They are only marketed as produced without synthetic inputs.

 

[acy0029]

I find it curious that the rise in the use of chemical fertilizers and insecticides correlates to the longer life expectancy of the American public. If America were to switch to all organic farming practices today how long do you think it would take for there to be a major famine?

 

[Mac in Wisco]

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Would you believe that I can keep elephants away by sticking my thumb in my ear? You don't see any elephants around her, do ya? Your correlation is weak in that it ignores advances in medicine. The National Cancer Institute says that the rate of cancer in children is increasing, while the death rate is decreasing.

Organic production doesn't necessarily mean reduced production:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...2&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title07/7cfr205_main_02.tpl