Organic Non GMO Wholesome Feed?

[Sylvester017]

@Sylvester017 All I meant was that in order for it to be USDA Certified Organic, it HAS to be NON-GMO and no use of pesticides not allowed by Organic. and USDA Cert Organic is what all the states have to go by anyway. I believe states, if they want, can add more but they can not add less.
Not wure I like that OMRI-certified thing you listed. They don't come and see your production, LOTS of Fees. The OMRI I was talking about are organic products for use as organic pesticides or composts for garden beds or chicken/poultry products like Manna Pro brand for birds -- all safe around humans or pets.

FF is good and I am wondering wwhat B vit you are talking about that changes ?

I read about the B vitamin changes in fermenting so long ago -- sorry but at the time I didn't bookmark it for reference since I was not interested in fermenting at the time. Fermenting feed like so many other processes available in raising chickens is a very personal choice and is neither good nor bad but simply an owner's personal choice.

 

[Sylvester017]

The OMRI I was talking about are organic products for use as organic pesticides or composts for garden beds or chicken/poultry products like Manna Pro brand for birds -- all safe around humans or pets.

 

[Leighe]

I'm too lazy and have very little room to set up a fermenting process since a lot of my space is taken up sprouting seeds for my little flock but I posted the following quote from the Breda page from a person who's been breeding peacocks, guinea keets, ducks, geese, gamebirds, and multiple chicken breeds for many years -- if it helps anyone:

"I got my originals from a few different places, Greenfire and a couple of other breeders who had assisted in importing them. There were only a handful of pure Bredas left in the world, and thanks to Greenfire and some of their constituents they imported eggs and birds in from several of these small flocks.
I totally disagree with the use of garlic for chickens. Yes for us it is beneficial but it is not safe for chickens because it will kill out the necessary beneficial gut bacteria.
The other thing you mention is referring to fermented feed. There's a few steps left out here. I used to use fermented feed but it is a lot of work and very messy. It just became totally impractical with the number of birds I have.
When mixing fermented feed you need at least 2 or 3 days worth to start your culture. I always used some apple cider vinegar in mine to get the culture going. You fill your container with water until after soaking up the feed you still have a small amount of water sitting on the top to protect it from bacteria. You MUST stir it to begin with and stir it every day. Each day as you remove feed you add more water and more feed. Be sure to keep the sides clean as well. If it starts to mold you have to toss it and start over. It's much like using a bread starter. You have to keep the fermenting process going to make it work. Once it is ready to use it almost smells sweet. You will learn to recognize that smell. And also any that doesn't smell good. It has to be kept warm. We have extremely cold winters here and I had to keep my fermented feed in a heated area. At the same time you don't want it to get too hot either cause that can destroy it. It needs some air to breath but you certainly don't want to risk having flies or gnats in it. That is another thing that will ruin it. I used to set a lid on it but leave it ajar so the air could still get in. It does increase protein and the birds actually end up eating less after a while. Because of all the additional flora it stops the chicken poop from smelling bad and if you butcher roosters they also don't stink like normal. It makes their feathers shiny and healthy. It really is great if you can manage the mess and the work.
I would do so today but I was mixing a 55 gallon barrel of it each day and it became to heavy to stir or manage. I feed at least 150 pounds of dry feed a day, and the fermented feed was over double that because of the water volume. It was just too much work.
The other caution is to never use this feed with metal containers. It will cause the galvanized surface to slough off and poison your birds. And the other thing is that you feed only what they will eat. No free choice food cause it will go bad if not changed daily.
I'd recommend you try it rooster but do some research on it before hand so you know what you are doing for sure."

Wow...55 gallons???? Geez, that wore me out reading it, lol. 5 gallon bucket much more manageable...80 chickens. They eat the fermented feed and then free range. I'm using their feed so they love it (same thing i do in winter when I add warm water and make mash) and because I'm fermenting I keep the "mother stock" so it is continuous and ferments faster. Guess it's really up to what you want to do, however, we humans have eaten fermented foods for centuries because it DOES keep the food edible longer. Pickles, sauerkraut, etc. If you're not into fermenting (and I wasn't) I get that, but fermented food is what kept a lot of our ancestors alive. Though the post you have referred to actually points out it is good for birds and saves money on food, they were just tired of doing it...too much work. The article I sent you she barely does anything except stir (just not a 55 gallon drum).

 

[Sylvester017]

Fermenting is probably fun but I've never seen that much benefit for my case. Plus I don't have the room to keep fermenting buckets. I have an extremely tiny kitchen and the sprouting seeds take enough room, plus I don't have to keep checking that a mash hasn't started to sour. I have 3 chickens only and they prefer sprouted seeds to mushy feed anyway. I give them some Greek organic yogurt if I see them having a hard time walking around with a heavy crop but it isn't often. Plus they free-range the yard and get plenty of fresh greens and produce. If I had a bigger area with more birds I'd probably have to consider something like fermenting but never had the inclination to do it for my little group. Let us know how your project goes with 80 birds!

 

[Leighe]

Fermenting is probably fun but I've never seen that much benefit for my case. Plus I don't have the room to keep fermenting buckets. I have an extremely tiny kitchen and the sprouting seeds take enough room, plus I don't have to keep checking that a mash hasn't started to sour. I have 3 chickens only and they prefer sprouted seeds to mushy feed anyway. I give them some Greek organic yogurt if I see them having a hard time walking around with a heavy crop but it isn't often. Plus they free-range the yard and get plenty of fresh greens and produce. If I had a bigger area with more birds I'd probably have to consider something like fermenting but never had the inclination to do it for my little group. Let us know how your project goes with 80 birds!

I'm going to have to look into "sprouting seeds"....haven't heard of that. I've been reading up on fodder so would like to start that project if everything goes humming along fine with fermenting.

 

[Sylvester017]

I've gone on youtube to get ideas on sprouting for human or animal consumption. Some owners sprout seeds in huge plastic trays for their flocks until the trays are solidly packed with tall sprouts and thick root growth -- but I have only 3 chickens and just use an organic seeds jar to sprout a few at a time for them. My girls are spoiled and like the tiny shoots of newly sprouted seeds rather than the the tall 2 or 3 inch blades of sprouted trays.

 

[Leighe]

I've gone on youtube to get ideas on sprouting for human or animal consumption. Some owners sprout seeds in huge plastic trays for their flocks until the trays are solidly packed with tall sprouts and thick root growth -- but I have only 3 chickens and just use an organic seeds jar to sprout a few at a time for them. My girls are spoiled and like the tiny shoots of newly sprouted seeds rather than the the tall 2 or 3 inch blades of sprouted trays.

They are spoiled! So glad you are a "spoiler" because that means they will be happy girls, lol.

 

[Sylvester017]

 

[h2oratt]

I've gone on youtube to get ideas on sprouting for human or animal consumption. Some owners sprout seeds in huge plastic trays for their flocks until the trays are solidly packed with tall sprouts and thick root growth -- but I have only 3 chickens and just use an organic seeds jar to sprout a few at a time for them. My girls are spoiled and like the tiny shoots of newly sprouted seeds rather than the the tall 2 or 3 inch blades of sprouted trays.

You only have three chickens?

 

[Sylvester017]

You only have three chickens?

TeeHee -- I'm retired in the suburbs and live in an area that's zoned for 5 hens/no roos. But in the last nearly 7 years have cycled through 18 chickens, losing some, re-homing some. I've lost a couple to compromised immune systems from our horrid SoCA heatwaves the last couple years, had to put some down at the vets due to cancer or other condition, lost shipped chicks, my second oldest hen, an adorable spunky Black Silkie, we had to put down in August at the vet because of a bleeding ovarian tumor. Now I have our oldest hen, a 7-yr-old Partridge Silkie, losing her vision but I won't put her down unless quality of life is otherwise missing. I also have an adult Cuckoo Breda hen that is very sweet toward the crotchety old Silkie since the Silkie won't let anything get near her since her failing vision.

Two months ago I ordered 3 new Dominique pullets from my local feed store (Wes's Pets & Feed) in El Monte, which would bring my total of hens up to 6 (one more than I'm zoned for) but after losing our Black Silkie this summer I'm in the allowed/zoned 5 hens range again. I grew up on a farm with lots of barnyard poultry and livestock so having a few allowed hens in my current backyard is nice because many cities around us are not zoned for chickens. I've been fortunate to have good neighbors that don't mind our hens. Homeowners can have 4 all-night barking dogs in their yard where authorities do nothing about complaints yet as soon as some homeowner brings a couple chicks into their yard, the neighborhood goes into an uproar -- can't figure out why since chickens don't bark all night long?